So I really dont know much about grounding kits, I do know what the benefits are supposed to be, but is it true? I would like to know who has them and if you think it is worth the money, time, gains, ect. What brand kits are the way to go and do the brand kits make a difference on what year your Z is? Thanks a lot!
camsauce
I think they are mostly for looks - I had a kit installed for a few years but the insulation got all discolored so I took them off. Did not notice a bit of difference. Supposedly helpful if you are running high powered audio equipment, but the general consensus is pretty mixed even on that.
I think the "science" behind the grounding kits is flawed. They seem to do nothing at all except cost some money.
Snake oil. The car is already properly grounded. Adding more grounding points will do nothing.
Glad this came up. I've been trying to do a lot of research on what to do to my vq35de in my '03 lately. I read a lot from this site, as it seems to focus on the technical and factual aspects of modification versus the bickering and childish arguments you see on some other sites.
Back on topic..From an electrical stand point, it makes sense that EMI or other sources of interference may prevent the ECU and other computers from performing flawlessly. Especially when (as far as I know) the throttle works on voltage supplied to the ecu via the position of the gas pedal in order to measure demand, thereby opening the valve, allowing more air in and calling for the appropriate amount of fuel via the MAF(please correct me if I'm wrong) So I see why the grounding kit is mentioned in the tuning guide. However, it also makes sense to me that quality OEM vehicles should have their electrical engineering pretty well handled.
So my question is the same, hoping for a thorough response from anyone with experience in the electrical side of engine tuning.
Back on topic..From an electrical stand point, it makes sense that EMI or other sources of interference may prevent the ECU and other computers from performing flawlessly. Especially when (as far as I know) the throttle works on voltage supplied to the ecu via the position of the gas pedal in order to measure demand, thereby opening the valve, allowing more air in and calling for the appropriate amount of fuel via the MAF(please correct me if I'm wrong) So I see why the grounding kit is mentioned in the tuning guide. However, it also makes sense to me that quality OEM vehicles should have their electrical engineering pretty well handled.
So my question is the same, hoping for a thorough response from anyone with experience in the electrical side of engine tuning.
What you mentioned is correct as far as the ECU using a bunch of voltage signals from a whole host of sensors to make decisions. These signals should be as interference free as possible (aka have the best signal-to-noise ratio possible). To achieve this, the engine is thoroughly grounded from the factory. Adding more grounds to something that is already grounded will accomplish absolutely nothing. The stray electrons will take the path of least resistance to ground. If you add more pathways to ground (think grounding kit), one of them may (just by chance) be a quicker path so the electrons will choose that one. What will that do? The electrons will make it to ground 1 trillionth of a second faster, aka nothing.
In addition, there is a certain amount of "uncertainty" with the sensor signals so any minor interference from this sort of thing will likely make little or no difference to the RMS (quadratic mean) signal that the ECU uses. The increase in signal-to-noise ratio using a grounding kit would be very small.
The only instance where additional grounding may be useful is when you modify the grounding by, say, installing a non-conductive gasket that creates a metal "island" that contains an important sensor where electricity can not "escape" to ground. In this case, it is possible that an electric field could build up modifying the sensors potential thereby sending an incorrect signal to the ECU.
What's the likelihood of this? Basically nill. What would happen if it did? Basically nill. The change in sensor signal would likely be within the normal "uncertainty" and ECU operation would be unchanged since the change in the sensor's RMS signal would be virtually nothing.
That's my take on it. I am no expert but I have a BS in physics and two years of graduate work in mechanical engineering under my belt that should count for something! :biggrin:
In addition, there is a certain amount of "uncertainty" with the sensor signals so any minor interference from this sort of thing will likely make little or no difference to the RMS (quadratic mean) signal that the ECU uses. The increase in signal-to-noise ratio using a grounding kit would be very small.
The only instance where additional grounding may be useful is when you modify the grounding by, say, installing a non-conductive gasket that creates a metal "island" that contains an important sensor where electricity can not "escape" to ground. In this case, it is possible that an electric field could build up modifying the sensors potential thereby sending an incorrect signal to the ECU.
What's the likelihood of this? Basically nill. What would happen if it did? Basically nill. The change in sensor signal would likely be within the normal "uncertainty" and ECU operation would be unchanged since the change in the sensor's RMS signal would be virtually nothing.
That's my take on it. I am no expert but I have a BS in physics and two years of graduate work in mechanical engineering under my belt that should count for something! :biggrin:
Most new cars are well ground these days. I know older cars find gains, but they weren't that well ground to start off with and the years of hard knocks and wear and tear don't help either.
Some people have noticed their idle as smoothed out a little after installing (or, as people have said, if you do mods that make big demands of your electrical system), but any gains on a modern car that's otherwise near-stock would be impossible to prove empirically.
Some people have noticed their idle as smoothed out a little after installing (or, as people have said, if you do mods that make big demands of your electrical system), but any gains on a modern car that's otherwise near-stock would be impossible to prove empirically.
Cool, that helps a lot. All of what you said makes sense, and I'll buy it coming from a guy with a degree in the appropriate subject matter:biggrin:
I might still get one just for some extra good looks in the engine bay, but at least now I can be pretty sure that it won't make a big difference if I don't. Thanks again for the thorough responses.
I might still get one just for some extra good looks in the engine bay, but at least now I can be pretty sure that it won't make a big difference if I don't. Thanks again for the thorough responses.
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