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Hello Everyone,

I am new to the board, but have been reading it for quite some time now...lot's of good information and speculation on the GT-R. I am seriously considering buying a GT-R, but faced with a bit of indecisiveness when I look at somewhat comparable cars for somewhat comparable $$ (assuming GT-R will have an MSRP of ~$80K)...a few examples:

- Audi S6, $75K MSRP, 435HP, 0-60 5.1 sec
- BMW M5, $82K MSRP, 500HP, 0-60 4.7 sec
- Mercedes E63 AMG, $85K MSRP, 507HP, 0-60 4.3 sec

I am sure there are other / better examples, but these 3 should be good examples within reason...and if they are not then I am all ears with regard to hearing why these are not good comparisons and what better ones would be.

These things said, and understanding that with the GT-R comes heritage, mystique, uniqueness, etc...why would YOU spend the $$ for the GT-R over some these other comparable cars?

Look forward to your responses.
 

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- Audi S6, $75K MSRP, 435HP, 0-60 5.1 sec
Fast? Yes. Family sedan? yes.

- BMW M5, $82K MSRP, 500HP, 0-60 4.7 sec
I love this car, but it remains a HEAVY 4 door sedan. If had had cash to blown and wanted a 4 door, this would be it.


- Mercedes E63 AMG, $85K MSRP, 507HP, 0-60 4.3 sec
This car is pretty cool, but it is a luxury line vehicle. I dont think the GT-R intends to be that.

I do hope the GTR is significantly less money than all 3 of those that you have listed. Good topic!
 

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i think the GT-R will cost <$60k.

all of the above cars are significantly more expensive.

i intend on spending extra cash on the GT-R- and would be willing to accept a higher than 60k price. cost aside though, none of those cars would probably have the same reliable performance potential as the GT-R.

imo there are few real competitors to the GTR. imo the vette is the only real competitor.
the m cars are fantastic but not nearly as tunable. same goes for rs and amg cars.

as for the vette, i would personally prefer to identify with the nissan gt-r than the corvette. although both are great machines.
 

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I don't see how any of the cars you've listed are comparable.

They might keep up in a straight line with the numbers you've quoted, but anyone who buys a GT-R for drag racing doesn't get the point of a GT-R.

The GT-R is a circuit racer, where they have these things called corners. And, through the corners, those 4 door luxo barges won't be able to keep up.


The competitors for the GT-R:

Corvette Z06
Porsche 911 Turbo
That mid-engined thing Toyota / Lexus might be releasing
NSX replacement (which Honda has yet to confirm)
BMW M6

those are the ones I can think about off the top of my head.

I'd even class the Gallardo and F430 in there when you're talking purely about performace, although obviously the two badges lift the respective cars clear of any ever made Nissan when it comes to a direct comparison.

Porsche and BMW might be able to do the same with their brand cachet, but neither German has the mystique of the Italian supercars.
 

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Because it's a legend. Period.
 

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If it's less than 60K then I'll buy it for the price, style, performance, heritage, community, and everything that is associated with the skyline. If it ends up shooting higher than that I'll be shopping for something used red and italian. Both scenarios are far down the road since i'm still in college at the moment.
 

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what Scathing said +10.

if you "compare shop" the GTR to the Audi, Merc, and BMW "luxury sport tuner" land barge models then you just don't "get it." you should not even bother buying a GTR if you are predisposed to the generic german luxo-VIP-esque offerings. if these cars come to mind when shopping, then you are probably never going to be "convinced." please stay away.

the GTR is a CULT. and it is for the rare few. you are comparing oil to water when listing these luxury german cars --forget it. if you are expecting german feel and all of the posh crap that many love about those ugly cars, then forget the GTR. you will never find what you are looking for. go somewhere else and leave the GTRs to the true fans who respect the religion.

the GTR is in the league of Porsche 997 GT3, Ferrari Maranello, Aston Martin DB9, V8 Vantage. not price, but in league of performance and esteem. if you want to be different and experience true magic, then welcome to the temple of the GTR.

the choice is all yours.
 

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what Scathing said +10.

if you "compare shop" the GTR to the Audi, Merc, and BMW "luxury sport tuner" land barge models then you just don't "get it." you should not even bother buying a GTR if you are predisposed to the generic german luxo-VIP-esque offerings. if these cars come to mind when shopping, then you are probably never going to be "convinced." please stay away.

the GTR is a CULT. and it is for the rare few. you are comparing oil to water when listing these luxury german cars --forget it. if you are expecting german feel and all of the posh crap that many love about those ugly cars, then forget the GTR. you will never find what you are looking for. go somewhere else and leave the GTRs to the true fans who respect the religion.

the GTR is in the league of Porsche 997 GT3, Ferrari Maranello, Aston Martin DB9, V8 Vantage. not price, but in league of performance and esteem. if you want to be different and experience true magic, then welcome to the temple of the GTR.

the choice is all yours.
I think your way off base personally. Though I do love your enthusiasm for everything Nissan. The GT-R is still a Nissan. Some of the reasons you don't see people "tweeking" and "tuning" BMW's, AMG's, Ferrari's, and the like is the replacement costs. It is much easier to stomach the cost of a 10K motor vs. 25K to get back to square one. So not many people will tweek and tune farther on the more expensive cars (not to mention that R&D of such tuning parts is very costly). I love the history of the Skyline, even back in the 70's when it was UGLY! I would not compare the GT-R to the high end league of the 997, Maranello, or any Aston Martin. As much as I love Nissan, and all the cars they have made over the years, Your starting to mix your definitive line of "Posh and Luxury" with that hard standard of performance that you have set. If you have ever sat or ridden in a Maranello or a DB9, you will notice that they are more luxury than performance. The performance that those companys have for "high-end" just makes those heavy weights feel better than the standards that are set for lower priced cars. I haven't had the Luxury of riding/driving in a 997 GT3, but I can speak for the other 2. I expect the GT-R to be priced around 65-70K and preform at 80% of what the M6 is capable of. Personally I think we will be lucky for GT-R to have the power of a Vette, and 80% of the performance of an Exige.

DDFZ
 

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what Scathing said +10.

if you "compare shop" the GTR to the Audi, Merc, and BMW "luxury sport tuner" land barge models then you just don't "get it." you should not even bother buying a GTR if you are predisposed to the generic german luxo-VIP-esque offerings. if these cars come to mind when shopping, then you are probably never going to be "convinced." please stay away.

the GTR is a CULT. and it is for the rare few. you are comparing oil to water when listing these luxury german cars --forget it. if you are expecting german feel and all of the posh crap that many love about those ugly cars, then forget the GTR. you will never find what you are looking for. go somewhere else and leave the GTRs to the true fans who respect the religion.

the GTR is in the league of Porsche 997 GT3, Ferrari Maranello, Aston Martin DB9, V8 Vantage. not price, but in league of performance and esteem. if you want to be different and experience true magic, then welcome to the temple of the GTR.

the choice is all yours.
The GT-R may have cult-like appeal here and now in the United States but when it comes I think it'll be anything but that.

Nissan is going for mainstream appeal with this car. It's being built to be a solid daily driver.
If Nissan does it right, it will also happen to have the 911 levels of performance and supercar-killing potential.
 

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i think the GT-R will cost <$60k.

all of the above cars are significantly more expensive.

i intend on spending extra cash on the GT-R- and would be willing to accept a higher than 60k price. cost aside though, none of those cars would probably have the same reliable performance potential as the GT-R.

imo there are few real competitors to the GTR. imo the vette is the only real competitor.
the m cars are fantastic but not nearly as tunable. same goes for rs and amg cars.

as for the vette, i would personally prefer to identify with the nissan gt-r than the corvette. although both are great machines.
Well said... Very well said.

I do believe they'll be in the post 70k range though.

I just bought a Daytona Blue 350Z, but pending business keeps up I'll be buying a GT-R in a few years also. :)
 

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"I think your way off base personally."

---clearly. and i think you're entirely clueless.

"The GT-R is still a Nissan."

---that is very obvious. nobody said it wasn't.

"Some of the reasons you don't see people "tweeking" and "tuning" BMW's, AMG's, Ferrari's, and the like is the replacement costs. It is much easier to stomach the cost of a 10K motor vs. 25K to get back to square one. So not many people will tweek and tune farther on the more expensive cars (not to mention that R&D of such tuning parts is very costly)."

-----no "tuning" of "AMG's?" mmmmkay! you must sell left-handed hammers, too.

"I love the history of the Skyline, even back in the 70's when it was UGLY!"

--- you do, huh? the KPGC10 and KPGC110 GTR's are ugly? mmmkkay.

"I would not compare the GT-R to the high end league of the 997, Maranello, or any Aston Martin."

---and that is only one reason why you are entirely out to lunch. i can forgive you once, as you are a noob. cost, no. performance, absolutely yes.

"As much as I love Nissan, and all the cars they have made over the years, Your starting to mix your definitive line of "Posh and Luxury" with that hard standard of performance that you have set. If you have ever sat or ridden in a Maranello or a DB9, you will notice that they are more luxury than performance"

you are dead in the water incorrect.. you are so incorrect that i feel sorry for you. yes, they have comforts, but they are absolutely in no way luxury over sport. you are entirely off base. they are high-end GT cars.

"The performance that those companys have for "high-end" just makes those heavy weights feel better than the standards that are set for lower priced cars."

what? huh? try working on sentence structure and basic english skills. it may help your credibility in the future. but not here!

" I haven't had the Luxury of riding/driving in a 997 GT3, but I can speak for the other 2. I expect the GT-R to be priced around 65-70K and preform at 80% of what the M6 is capable of. Personally I think we will be lucky for GT-R to have the power of a Vette, and 80% of the performance of an Exige."

---- :rolf2:
 

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Tou-che' It better whoop a vette...I mean, it should obviously be above and beyond a Z or vette...
 

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"The GT-R may have cult-like appeal here and now in the United States but when it comes I think it'll be anything but that."

think again, sunshine!

"Nissan is going for mainstream appeal with this car. It's being built to be a solid daily driver."

----that has no meaning whatsoever. it was always among the most sought after kind of JDM car worldwide. and it was a solid daily-driver. yet few could have it. hence the cult. if more were made, and more were available, more would have been bought. that day is now upon us very soon. despite it's being widely available, the GTR will be every bit as exclusive, as it will probably remain in the relative minority of buyers of performance cars. a possible caveat to GTR pricing is that suffered by the Edsel and the last gen of RX-7 sold here stateside: both cars were excellent, but were priced "for nobody."

that is, both of those cars were priced too high for the demographic who looked at lower-end marketed sports and/or luxury cars (like Camaro for the RX-7; Chevy Impala for the Edsel), but too below the demographic of those buying Porsche (or for Edsel, the would-be Cadillac buyer). so in only a very short run, the Edsel, an excellent car, was cancelled, as was the USDM sales of the RX-7. i fear the GTR may have a similar problem, as it may not fit into any "typical" pricing range.

Porsche buyer: "well, for about only 35grand more, i can have a Porsche. forget that Nissan thing."
Z buyer: "well, the GTR is cool, but costs almost twice as much a Z. forget it. it's the Z. that's good enough for the price."

see? priced for "nobody." if that is the case, that would absolutely increase the exclusivity factor even more for the GTR. but who knows. nobody knows the real pricing for the GTR.

"If Nissan does it right, it will also happen to have the 911 levels of performance and supercar-killing potential."

----correct.
 

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more cars- lexus lf-a probably the new supra, audi r8, zo6, and one underdog chryslers firepower, this car will be on the new viper platform it will have a 6.4 v8. i just want to know is the gtr going to be limited production or not that will really determine price
 

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If should have a factory option booste controller to make it a super-car killer... hehe.
 

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"The GT-R may have cult-like appeal here and now in the United States but when it comes I think it'll be anything but that."

think again, sunshine!
what i mean is that the popularity of the GT-R will spread beyond enthusiasts. i do NOT mean to say that the appeal will die down among enthusiasts or anyone else for that matter- just that it wont be a cult-like appreciation, nearly everyone will be able to appreciate it.

"Nissan is going for mainstream appeal with this car. It's being built to be a solid daily driver."

----that has no meaning whatsoever. it was always among the most sought after kind of JDM car worldwide. and it was a solid daily-driver. yet few could have it. hence the cult. if more were made, and more were available, more would have been bought. that day is now upon us very soon. despite it's being widely available, the GTR will be every bit as exclusive, as it will probably remain in the relative minority of buyers of performance cars. a possible caveat to GTR pricing is that suffered by the Edsel and the last gen of RX-7 sold here stateside: both cars were excellent, but were priced "for nobody."
i guess this comes down to an argument of what a 'lot' is. this also involves a belief of what the cost of the GT-R will be. i believe it will be able to be had for <$60k. imo a 'lot' of people can afford a $60k car. obviously not a lot in comparison to the general populous, but enough so that you could see a GT-R quite often. think: how often do you see 7 series, Lexus LS, S class, Vette, etc? these are all 'expensive' cars, that 'few' can afford, but depending on where you live you may see quite a number of them. I disagree that the demographic will exclude many buyers. This isn't the evo where Mitsu messed up by making the Lancer first and killed most of the appeal the evo might have to the average owner (who's into looks, features, etc.) The GT-R looks like it will play the part in all aspects. It's likely to be AWD TT. It'll as practical as anything in its segment. Considering also that it'll play the role all around, I dont see how they'll have a problem selling them. Porsche owners look at it as a nice DD to accompany their higher end 911s. Z owners look at it as something to trade up to. Instead of excluding everyone, I think they're doing the reverse. This is also evidenced by Nakamura's comments, which reflect exactly what I've just said.

As far as the car dying off due to poor sales, I don't see that happening either, so long as Nissan is honest with their sales goals. I don't really see them selling 5k/mo of these (USDM), no matter how well executed it is. BUT 1-2k/mo in the US sounds doable if they do a good enough job with it. If you look at Supra sales, that's about where they trailed off to. The real reason why they stopped selling the Supra is the same reason why they don't sell it today: they dont want to. The Z, Vette, 911 have done something that few of their competitors have been able to do: proven that sports cars can sell. Part of the problem with the earlier cars was that
1. the demographic was dminishing as most were wanting SUVs
2. the appreciation for a tuning friendly, potent car wasnt what it is today
3. the supra and rx7, although outstanding and close, did not quite have the name of the GT-R/Z/911/vette.
4. the value/$ on those cars was low. The 350z is, inflation adjusted, HALF the price of the 300zx, for what's arguably a better "sports car".
5. there was a lot of competition- m3, supra, 300zx, vette, rx7, 3000gt, and more all filled the same segment.

but today:

1. the demographic for sports cars is stronger
2. nismo is selling. people can appreciate performance-oriented products and are willing to spend money on it more so now than ever before. this applies at all levels as well, from the cobalt to the 911 turbo.
3. you get the GT-R badge...
4. ....for the price of the outgoing 300zx....
5. ...in a marketplace with fewer competitors where nissan has the most practical car.
 
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