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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,
Just had the Whiteline sways installed today.
First off, I ordered them mid morning Monday & received them this morning Friday, very quick service!

The front has been increased 10% over stock
The rears have been increased 35% over stock.
Still have one more adjustment on each bar to try!

First thing I noticed was a faster increase in steering response when going around a corner at moderate speeds, so I am pleased.

At faster speeds at my usual testing road, I found much better turn in and noticeably less body roll. This allowed me to push the car harder and I noticed that I could take alot of the corners at a greater speed that I was used to with much more confidence.I believe that the cars handling is much better now and will be able to attack those corners at even higher speeds. On one corner I did momentarily slide the back a little sideways, got on the gas a little too early, but it was easily controlled. It surpised me a little, but I was going very fast!

This quick fang has shown me the 'real' limits of the zed. Keeping the car in the powerband on bends and really attacking them shows me the awesome capabilities of our cars and I can't imagine how good it would be on a closed road or track! I don't need more horsepower as the car has got more than enough grunt when going around corners at speed!
Nissan should have fitted adjustable sways in the first place!

The best thing is I can still adjust both front & rear with even higher rate. Will do that in a few weeks after I fully test this setting.

This has been the best bang for buck mod I have done so far!
The sways have turned a great handling car into an awesome handling car!

A mid $500 mod has made alot of difference!
 

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Great write up - thanks MB.

Is your suspension stock other than the white line bars or are they part of a package? :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Welcome Zdownunder!
I am running the Hotchkis springs (ordered from the States) & now combined with the Whiteline adjustable sways.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Had to post again!
I went for another drive tonight & this time I pushed the car to the limit a number of times. Man, the sways make a huge difference!
I have had my z for 4 mths now & I feel like I have been swept off my feet again! It's almost like a different car (not quite!).
Anyways, as you can see I am very excited.
It is handling like a dream, rear has lost very little grip, but the turn in is amazing. I was taking sharp corners at high speed & very little sign of understeer, the back end coming out was very progressive, no snapping.
I reckon I will wear my tyres out very soon if I keep up this 'aggressive driving'.
I know we are all mod crazy, to me this should be the first done for anyone wanting a much more neutral car.

I might have to post after each drive, might have to get one of those dictation word typing thingies!!!!
 

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Nice to see mickeyboy - do you think the sways on standard springs would be a worthwhile mod??
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah sure, I don't see why not? The only reason I changed my springs was for the slightly lowered effect, I thought there was too much gap in the wheel arches, not for the revised spring rates.
Believe it or not, our suspension set up is pretty darn good!
I know on one of the US boards, there is thread from some time back about some magazine testing the zed got 1G on the skidpan just by changing sway bars & running same tyres (275's I think) front & rear.
If you are after better handling then do your sways, then see if you want to go further.
 

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here are the specs from another thread which is on the same topic.
front 32mm SOLID rear 20mm SOLID
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
They are solid. They weigh a little less than the oem ( I think).
The oem front bar was one thick & heavy mother!
whiteline front diameter: 32mm 2 hole adjustment
rear :20mm 3 hole adjustment
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just an update:

Had the front & rear sways moved to the inner most slots today.
This has made the sways more aggressive.

My driving quick test drive (40kms) has proven that there is no understeer now. Absolutely none!
The car now turns in even better than before, much more aggressive bite via the front wheels. I don't drive like a mad man most of the time, but now I know I will enjoy it even more!
If anything, there is slight oversteer now (which I like), only if the power is applied too early. It is very progressive though, no 'snappiness',. Very enjoyable to drive.

After this drive (coming back from Nizmopete's garage) I will leave it at this setting as can confidently hit alot of corners at much higher speeds than stock sways. Have found the limits of the Potenza's and I must say that it is quite high. Would love to see the cornering limits with even grippier tyres.

cheers
 

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My driving quick test drive (40kms) has proven that there is no understeer now. Absolutely none!

hehe, I know that you probably did not mean that literally, but 'absolutely no understeer' is a tall order for a 350Z. I'm not sure if there are enough mods (besides building the car from scratch) that will remove all the undertseer from the car. My car with -1.5deg camber at the front, Whiteline springs and 245 tyres all around is pretty good in that regard, but it still has more understeer that some of the 'purer' sports-cars out there (ie. S2000, Boxster, Elise to think of a few).

A lot of the understeer is inherent from the engine sitting a bit over the front-wheels and the center of gravity. Ideally one would want all the mass between the front and rear axel and as close to the ground as possible (ie. F360, Elise, Boxster or S2000).

Still, some undertseer is not a bad thing ... I don't think anyone would want to drive a car with absolutely no understeer as that would mean that anytime the car would loose grip, it would be at the back (ie. going around a corner only the back would ever step out).

Shame you're not in Melbourne as I'd be interested to see what difference the sway-bars make. Just purely from a logical point of view, having (more or less) the same front-bar, and stiffer rear-bar would not give anymore grip to the front. It would make the front 'sharper' and take some cornering grip away from the back ... and hence balance the car better. Though, that's just the theory while in practice there's a lot more at play in a car and the effect is nowhere as straigh-forward as it can (in a way) transfer some of the rear grip to the front and hance do give the front more grip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Maybe you need to invest in some. They do make a huge difference and the understeer is gone!

"Just purely from a logical point of view, having (more or less) the same front-bar, and stiffer rear-bar would not give anymore grip to the front."

If you add rate to the rear then it would transfer roll stifness to the front therefore
giving more grip. This is logical!

Also, I think it was sport compact magazine in the US (something like that?) that did very basic mods to a zed in the suspension department:
-Tyre size same all round (as you have)
-Hotchkis sways
-tyre pressures

They acheived 1G on slalom, That's as good, if not better than the cars you mentioned! Make no mistake, the zed is in the same league as those cars. The stock suspension has many features not seen in sports cars far more expensive & the weight distribution is also up with the best (53/47).

The 350Z's front suspension is essentially double wishbone, but the lower wishbone is two-piece to provide two separate pivot points, allowing more accurate control of the wheel under all conditions. It's a development that Nissan has gained 14 patents for.

"tuning" of the swaybars as I have done has dialed out the understeer. Just made a good thing better for my driving style.


Also the bars are solid not hollow like oem so that makes a difference in their rigidity being able to transfer the cornering forces more effectively.

Front oem 32mm tube (solid equivalent is 31.5mm) whitelines are 32mm solid
Rear oem 21mm tube (solid equivalent is 19mm) whitelines are 20mm solid.

For around $500 it is an excellent BFYB & transforms the car. There's plenty of power there
 

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Maybe you need to invest in some.

As I mentioned before, if I feel that the car needs a bit more help in the 'balance' department, then that is exaclty what I'll add.

do make a huge difference and the understeer is gone!

Maybe we have a different definition of 'understeer', and 'absulutely gone'. Maybe it is gone at the speeds that you drive, but I have a strong suspision that on the track (or a skidpan) there would still be plenty of understeer. Whether it's still 'too much' that is a different story.

If you add rate to the rear then it would transfer roll stifness to the front therefore giving more grip.

Yep, I did mention that in the previous post ... just in different words. Though what I was trying to point out is that stiffer sway-bar will remove some grip from that rear-end of the car. With an OME 350Z there is a lot more grip at the back than at the front. There are ways to add grip to the front, but there is only that much that can be done. If then you still have too much grip at the back (compared to the front), then you can take away some of that grip from the rear and move it to the front via a stiffer rear swaybar. Whether this is a 'lossless' relation I do not know.

They acheived 1G on slalom, That's as good, if not better than the cars you mentioned!

Generating Gs on a skid-pan has very little to do with cars handling characteristics/attributes. It is mostly related to the tyres. To give you an exmaple, any car with R-spec tyres will generate over 1.1G on a skid-pan. Put slicks on any car, and that car will generate over 1.2Gs on a skid-pan. Neither tyres will make the car handle better, or change it's balance ... they just add more grip.

It's true that suspension has a lot to do with keeping the optimum contact patch for all all 4 tyres, but I don't see how any swaybars would help with that ... afterall, they just limit the roll, not the suspension geometry. If anything, springs and shocks would be more benefitial here.

Make no mistake, the zed is in the same league as those cars.

I think you should drive some of those cars before making a statement like that ;-) IMHO the 350Z is nothing like those cars and that is primarily because the engine sits partially over the front wheels and also because the center of gravity is not as low as for the others. That does not make the 350Z a bad car, but my point was that no matter what one does to a 350Z, it will never feel like those cars.

& the weight distribution is also up with the best (53/47)

53/47 is actually a pretty poor weight ditribution. Nothing to write home about that ... a stock Commodore has excactly the same weight-distribution.

Though, the weight-distribution figures in themselves do not tell you clearly how well balanced a car is. For example you could add (lets say) 50kg at the back of 350Z and it will have a perfect 50/50 distribution ... though will it make the car any better? No, it'll make it a lot worse. So as you can see the weight distribution is not as telling as one would like ... the Commodore example I gave before illustrates that as the 350Z had 10x better balance even though they share the same weighty-distribution. This is because what counts even more than the actual 'weight distribution' figure is how much of the actuall mass is between the front and rear exel and how much is sitting in front and behind it. Also what matters is how lot the mass sits.

So you're better off having a car that has weight-distribution of 45/55 (or 55/44) than a 50/50 if the difference is that one has absolutely all the mass between the axels, and the other has all the mass over the axels.

A Commodore has lot more mass over the axels than a 350Z and also it has a lot higher center of gravity. Though, cars like the Boxster, Elise and even the S2000 have much less mass over the axels, and also have a lower center of gravity. Not only that, but their actual weigh-distribution figures are better for out-right handling/perfromance. In a 350Z you can never overcome the way the car was built/designed and no matter how much you play with the suspension, it will never feel like the cars with (more) cetral mass and lower center of gravity.

Last of all, think about why the F360 (or F430) would feel so much ligher, grippier and more nimbler than a 350Z even though they weight exactly the same. The reason is that the Ferraries have very central mass allocation and also very low center of gravity.

For around $500 it is an excellent BFYB & transforms the car. There's plenty of power there.

Not denying or arguing that ... it's the 'absulutely no understeer', and 'the zed is in the same league as those cars' comments that prompted me to respond.

Afterall, if you take it to an extreme, if you take a Civic and modify it to the extreme, it will still be nothing like 350Z and it will never be in the same league in terms of handling and balance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Shite, I couldn't be bothered reading all that!

I got to the slalom g parts, that was enough. slalmo g's don't really relate to the street (but good indication to compare cars), but the zed set up as I mentioned above, actually does better than the new Porsche 911. I picked on the Porsche because you mentioned it & they are way harder to drive quickly (and confidently) than the zed. My mate has one and we do drive together alot!

Also on slalom tests, the mini (current) pulls 1.1g on the slalom! No mods either!

Also, mass etc, plays alot in the car, but also the way the suspension works. Like I said the zed has very unique suspension that helps such a large (weighty) car keep poised thru turns (slalom)

Mate you made alot of statements in their, one about slalom being mainly about tyres. Hogwash! Put the same tyres on all the cars and they will all pull different times. This has to be a direct correlation on how they handle being fully wound up. It is the suspension system!

Stop argueing and get some! So I said no understeer, you know what I mean!
 

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Mickyboy, I think you need to read David's argument, because your reply doesn't counter what he said in any way. By the way, he didn't talk about 911, but about a boxter, and if you read his post you'll know why that is different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Really, I can't be bothered! All stems from no understeer, man someone needs to get a life!

BTW, Porsche Boxster compared to a zed, c'mon.
 

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Mickyboy, don't take an offence on it, but before you try to disregard some ones argument and push your own view on them, read what they have to say. Otherwise it just looks silly, mostly if you brush off the persons argument by saying that it's too long. If you don't have time to read it, don't reply. Considering that you already have told him to try the sways in your previous post and your later post doesn't add any other value to this discussion. No offence intended.
 

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DavidM - great post on the balance of the car. This is very informative and thank you for taking the time to write such a long post.
Much appreciated.

MB - I read in all the mags where the drivers (including race car drivers like John Bowe) compare the Z to a boxter in terms of handling and they allways state that the Boxter is the best.
Initially, when I came across these statements, I thought that perhaps they may be giving the the Porsche more credit than it deserved in comparison to the 350Z because the Boxter carries a Porsche badge where as the Z's just a humble Nissan. However, when you come across the same statement again and again, I start to think that there must be some truth in the statement.
I've never driven a Boxter, but would sure like to to make my own judgement on its handling capabilities compared to the Z's.
 
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