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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, well considering the UTEC comes with a base map that is for Intake and Exhaust, I figured this would be a conservative map. This does not appear to be the case. Jaysen took his car to get tuned yesterday (Japtrix) and they spent a few hours playing with it to get things right. He said the base map was getting less power than the stock map! And to top things off the base map was knocking all over the place. :banghead: Hopefully Japtrix or Jaysen can chime in and add some more to this thread.

I also experienced something strange with the base map. Thinking the map was conservative, I took it out and pushed it. In 3rd gear around 6k rpms, it felt like someone slammed the brakes on my Z. It must have been knocking hard enough to cut major timing or something. I sent the map to my tuner and he said it looked very strange. Who made this map?

Anyways, the morale of the story: Do not just install the UTEC and go.. You need to take it for tuning.
 

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Ok, well considering the UTEC comes with a base map that is for Intake and Exhaust, I figured this would be a conservative map. This does not appear to be the case. Jaysen took his car to get tuned yesterday (Japtrix) and they spent a few hours playing with it to get things right. He said the base map was getting less power than the stock map! And to top things off the base map was knocking all over the place. :banghead: Hopefully Japtrix or Jaysen can chime in and add some more to this thread.

I also experienced something strange with the base map. Thinking the map was conservative, I took it out and pushed it. In 3rd gear around 6k rpms, it felt like someone slammed the brakes on my Z. It must have been knocking hard enough to cut major timing or something. I sent the map to my tuner and he said it looked very strange. Who made this map?

Anyways, the morale of the story: Do not just install the UTEC and go.. You need to take it for tuning.
Josh, what mods do you have?The base map I installed on a G35 with High flow cats and a plenum spacer and his A/F was perfect at 13.5 across the board. The Base map will advance timing at redline, but need to be at about 12.9 A/F from 5900-redline. You probably have more breathing mods and ran a bit leaner than 13.5 and with the advanced timing picked up some knock..Try putting a little fuel in at 80% load site from 5800-6800rpms this should correct it...But definitely tune it, the base map is not meant to make power but to be a platform in which a tuner could build a solid map without spending countless hours on the dyno..
 

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I will post comparison dyno sheets later tonight of Jaysen's runs I assume he is OK with that.

Basically the tune on the Utec is not bad just conservative, very conservative, they pull quite a bit of timing and add quite a bit of fuel.

The knocking is due to a couple of things in the utec, first the threshold for knock is very low considering it is NA plus the knock count for triggering the retard is set very low again for an NA car, it only takes 1 count of knocking for it to retard. Also at some spots the tune had some steep changes in timing which caused the knock.

As always out of the box tunes are not perfect for all cars as all cars are different. So basically we smoothed out the timing at some spots, leaned it out some and raised the knock thresdhold up a little to make sure 1 count would not send you into retard

So don't panic and think it is not safe it is just conservative.
 

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As always out of the box tunes are not perfect for all cars as all cars are different.
+1 There you go right there ^^ As Gus stated. .you should never trust a base map. VE is always going to be different from engine to engine.

I don't really think this is anything to worry about. At least they provide a base map to get you running. Next step, drive to the tuner/ dyno.. OR if you are so inclined.. start tuning it yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
This was just a warning on the Base map. There is nothing wrong with the UTEC and i like it alot. However it should have BIG RED LETTERS saying to use the Base map only to get you to the dyno for tuning.
 

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OK here are the charts, J was cool with me posting them up. I have one that is the base without Utec compared to the Utec no tune, and then the second one is the base without Utec comapred to final run.

Here is Base w/o Utec compared to base Utec, as you can see the Utec is adding tons of fuel, it is hard to see the different shades of red but the top AF curve is the base curve and the bottom one is the Utec curve, the added fuel resulted in a loss of torque down low and really did not do much the rest of the way as both HP and TQ curves are almost on top of each other. Max HP was 223 for base and 222 for Utec and Max TQ was 214 for base and 210 for Utec.



And here is the Base w/o Utec compared to the final run after tune. Again a little hard to see the different shades but we got the AF curve straight across at 13, keeping it a little safe but yo ucan see the HP came up nicely along with the TQ. Max HP after tune was 230 and max TQ was 214, I think the base TQ is a little decieving as it looks like the peak is occurring at that little blip at the beggining so the QT for the base run is probably more like 205.




I have to say I really like the unit for all of its features, just wish the interface for the tuning software was a little more modern and user friendly but it does the job.
 

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Hey Gus, did you do any experimenting in the 12.0:1 AF range. The last two NA cars we tuned responded with the best power and trq gains, by quickly hitting 12.0:1 across the board, from about 3500rpm to redlne. It's a little bit unconventional, as in theory, the engine should make more power at 12.8:1, but we actually lost power. We tried 11.0:1, 12.0:1 and 13.0:1, and made the best gains at 12.0:1. Just thought I would pass that along to everyone...if it helps. Each car is going to be different, based on the mods installed, temps, etc...so it is by no means conclusive...just something we noticed on the NA cars I tuned.

I agree with what everyone is saying, and ToyKilla clarified it. The base maps are simply designed to get the car up and running. But each car needs a dedicated retune. Nice work. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
thanks Sharif.. i should be going for tune sometime next week and will pass this along to my guy
 

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According to the dealers we have had tuning the UTEC. They come across sitiuations where they think that the car is knocking but the watching the factory ecu in the datalogger proves that the factory ecu is still advancing time well and beyond the base map. This is a sign that the knock thresholds are just a bit too senstive. Your knock thresholds may need to be adjusted for your vehicle. With the low amount of ignition timing in the base map, I highly doubt it is knocking.

I will modify the parameter file on monday.

Thanks,

Jermaine~
 

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According to the dealers we have had tuning the UTEC. They come across sitiuations where they think that the car is knocking but the watching the factory ecu in the datalogger proves that the factory ecu is still advancing time well and beyond the base map. This is a sign that the knock thresholds are just a bit too senstive. Your knock thresholds may need to be adjusted for your vehicle. With the low amount of ignition timing in the base map, I highly doubt it is knocking.

I will modify the parameter file on monday.

Thanks,

Jermaine~
Thanks Jermaine,

We noted that also, the knock threshholds are pretty sensitive.At times the UTEC pulled timing when it was most likely reacting to normal engine noise..
 

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FYI, I did not touch my knock thresholds at all

just goes to show you guys, these are base maps...essentially enough to get the car started and for you to do your own tuning on. Do not think for a moment that if car A and B have identical mods that you can simply transfer the map from one car to the other and be all set. You'll be in the ballpark for sure, but to make the tuning spot on for your car, it needs to be tuned on your car :)

Happy tuning!!!
 

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I haven't Dyno'd mine with the base yet, but i did log it. It didn't knock once and read rich the whole rev session. My vehicle was running lean before though. So it is definately dumping a butt load of fuel in there.
 
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