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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok I don't own A 350Z yet but I am thinking about getting one after my car is payed off, and I am going to want to put in a supercharger or a turbocharger, Which is best? I thought I would go ahead and ask everyone on here because you all own one and I don't yet, so you all would know more about the performence with this mod, so which would give me more benifit the turbo or blower? But for more of a daily driver and weekend racer? Saw some pics of the vortech charger and it looked really nice under the hood. Any kind of advice would help, thanks.
 

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Turbo > Supercharger

Turbo $$ >> Supercharger $$

You are really limited by the stock internals with each option. Both are capable of 400+rwhp, and anything more requires engine builds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Originally posted by TOYKILLA@Aug 13 2005, 02:47 PM
Turbo > Supercharger

Turbo $$ >> Supercharger $$

You are really limited by the stock internals with each option. Both are capable of 400+rwhp, and anything more requires engine builds.
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I don't mind a little engine modifications to run a decint setup, do you mean like upgrading the heads and rotating assembly? When I do this I was just wanting to know which one would be more daily drivable the turbo or the blower? I was looking to get more of like 500+Hp and still street legil.
 

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To get 500hp at the wheels, you will need to build the engine, which at BARE MINUMUM would require forged pistons and rods, but since you will already have the engine out you might as well upgrade the rest of the internals while you are at it.

To bring you up to speed, over the past year it has been determined that the engine rods are a weak link in the engine above 380hp (400hp + with good tuning). It has also been found that the ECU has several different programs that engage at different times. The best solution to keep your engine safe is separate engine management system or a reflash to prevent the ECU switching to different engine maps on the fly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Originally posted by TOYKILLA@Aug 13 2005, 04:37 PM
To get 500hp at the wheels, you will need to build the engine, which at BARE MINUMUM would require forged pistons and rods, but since you will already have the engine out you might as well upgrade the rest of the internals while you are at it.

To bring you up to speed, over the past year it has been determined that the engine rods are a weak link in the engine above 380hp (400hp + with good tuning). It has also been found that the ECU has several different programs that engage at different times. The best solution to keep your engine safe is separate engine management system or a reflash to prevent the ECU switching to different engine maps on the fly.
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hhhmmmm very interesting, I was looking for more of these kinds of posts. so forged pistons and rods, ported cylinder heads and a reflash or separate engine managment setup. Anything more?
 

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If you are looking at 500hp to the wheels, you should stay away from the superchargers. You can get there with them, however the turbos will do it more efficiently.

Concerning the engine management, I believe the APS single and twin turbo kits come with the best engine management setups. From what I understand they are pretty much standalone ECUs, where all the other options on the market are piggy back-type. The APS kits are the most complete "out of the box", however there has been discussions suggesting the Greddy has a higher horsepower potential with some upgrades since it has bigger turbos.

The APS is the only kit i would feel comfortable slapping on my z out of the box. Any other kit will need additionaly equipment to run safely.

If I was going with a supercharger, it would be the Vortech.

How soon are you looking to do this? We are putting together a new section of the site that will compare all the aftermarket parts on the market including turbo/SC kits. We hope to have an extensive list of included parts and what is needed for each kit to run safely.

What do you mean by street legal? I think you will have a tough time hitting 500hp and still being street legal, but i could be wrong. Off hand I dont know which kits are CARB approved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by TOYKILLA@Aug 13 2005, 05:24 PM
If you are looking at 500hp to the wheels, you should stay away from the superchargers. You can get there with them, however the turbos will do it more efficiently.

Concerning the engine management, I believe the APS single and twin turbo kits come with the best engine management setups. From what I understand they are pretty much standalone ECUs, where all the other options on the market are piggy back-type. The APS kits are the most complete "out of the box", however there has been discussions suggesting the Greddy has a higher horsepower potential with some upgrades since it has bigger turbos.
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Sounds good, but if I go turbo I wanted to go twin, I want to still have it drivable and not much maintanince, if I can't get it street legil I want it to still act like it is and not be a complete monster. I was goiing to get all this done earlly next year. But I just want whats best and I want somthing that spools quick nothing that is going to be a hugh hesitation at the line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Originally posted by TOYKILLA@Aug 13 2005, 05:48 PM
All the twins on the market spool very fast. Lag is not any issue with any of the kits. Hopefully some of the more FI savvy will chime in.
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I thought turbos take time to spool, where as blowers have instent power.
 

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Originally posted by Jetpilot718@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC.  Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better.  Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

I could not disagree with this comment more. I had a supercharger, and it was more headache then it was worth. The many moving parts on a Supercharger set up requires much more attention and maintainance than 99% of people care to do. I had nothing but constant belt issues, tearing,jumping off, ect. The SC made some decent off the line power but it seemed my car was broken more than it worked. I had to replace the main bracket on my SC all the pulleys, belts, so I would probably say any SC is not more reliable than a Turbo setup.I have run the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Originally posted by Daking350Z+Aug 14 2005, 09:13 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Jetpilot718
@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC. Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better. Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
[snapback]145438[/snapback]​


So the APS TT sounds like a nice setup. What about adding additional mods and such is there a lot of extra tuning required? Not meaning to sound like a retard don't have much expertease in imports.
 

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from what i understand, the APS kits are pretty complete and don't need much other purchases. tuning of course would be good to get the proper settings and make sure you're safe with the boost. daking?
 

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Originally posted by priscilla ls1+Aug 14 2005, 11:42 AM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 09:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jetpilot718
@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC. Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better. Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
[snapback]145438[/snapback]​


So the APS TT sounds like a nice setup. What about adding additional mods and such is there a lot of extra tuning required? Not meaning to sound like a retard don't have much expertease in imports.
[snapback]145445[/snapback]​

APS is a pretty complete kit...you would want to consider adding a true dual exhaust and some wider rubber...and gauges.
 

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Originally posted by priscilla ls1+Aug 14 2005, 09:42 AM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 09:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jetpilot718
@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC. Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better. Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
[snapback]145438[/snapback]​


So the APS TT sounds like a nice setup. What about adding additional mods and such is there a lot of extra tuning required? Not meaning to sound like a retard don't have much expertease in imports.
[snapback]145445[/snapback]​


APS TT is complete for an out of box kit.

What I would recommend in addition to the kit:
Test pipes
Decent flowing exhaust
Gauges:
- oil temp
- Boost
- Wideband o2
Eventually a new clutch
DEFINITELY A TUNE!
 

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Originally posted by priscilla ls1+Aug 14 2005, 07:09 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-TOYKILLA
@Aug 13 2005, 05:48 PM
All the twins on the market spool very fast. Lag is not any issue with any of the kits. Hopefully some of the more FI savvy will chime in.
[snapback]145330[/snapback]​


I thought turbos take time to spool, where as blowers have instent power.
[snapback]145425[/snapback]​


i think this is somewhat missunderstood by many people.

With the right sized turbos you can be at full boost by 3k rpms.. With a Supercharger, you will not be at full boost until redline. When you are really getting on the throttle, you will never see below 3500-4000 rpms.
 

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Originally posted by Daking350Z+Aug 14 2005, 09:13 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Jetpilot718
@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC. Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better. Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

I could not disagree with this comment more. I had a supercharger, and it was more headache then it was worth. The many moving parts on a Supercharger set up requires much more attention and maintainance than 99% of people care to do. I had nothing but constant belt issues, tearing,jumping off, ect. The SC made some decent off the line power but it seemed my car was broken more than it worked. I had to replace the main bracket on my SC all the pulleys, belts, so I would probably say any SC is not more reliable than a Turbo setup.I have run the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
[snapback]145438[/snapback]​



I think you had the ATI supercharger right ? You may have had lot of problems with your SC but not every one does . After I changed my belt to a gates belt . Ive never had any belt problems or much of any thing go wrong with my Vortech and the set up that wasnt of my own making . As far as the APS TT and the other TT and ST set ups....go over to My350Z...Plenty of people having problems with all the kits...be it a SC , ST, or TT set up . Alot of guys having problems with the APS ST and TT set ups...mostly with the tune.....there are only a couple shops in the whole USA that can tune the Unichip piggyback that APS has with their kit . Turbonetic's flashes the stock ECU , so you have to send your ECU back and forth...who knows how many times to ge it right .
The point Im trying to make is...dont expect to drop in any kit and be trouble free....some may get lucky and not have an issue at all...some will have a hard time figuring out problems and getting them working can be a bitch . Over on the other forum....there are guys that cant make more than 5psi on there Vortech and cant figure it out . There is a guy with a APS ST that loses boost after 4500rpm and cant figure it out...APS cant either . Several APS TT set ups running richer than ****...in the 9's for A/F....APS say to buy more of thier stuff to fix it . Send the unichip back and forth how many times to get it right .
If you decide to buy a kit of any kind.....feel lucky if you can drop it in and NOT have any issues . But be ready to be able handle the frustration of trying to figure out problem when they arise
 

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Originally posted by booger1+Aug 20 2005, 03:41 PM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 09:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Jetpilot718
@Aug 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Daily drivable = SC. Stillen makes a real safe one, Vortec has gotten better. Turbo requires consistent maintenance to keep it runnin safely.
[snapback]145315[/snapback]​

I could not disagree with this comment more. I had a supercharger, and it was more headache then it was worth. The many moving parts on a Supercharger set up requires much more attention and maintainance than 99% of people care to do. I had nothing but constant belt issues, tearing,jumping off, ect. The SC made some decent off the line power but it seemed my car was broken more than it worked. I had to replace the main bracket on my SC all the pulleys, belts, so I would probably say any SC is not more reliable than a Turbo setup.I have run the APS TT setup for about 5000 miles now and had ZERO issues since install, Jayson has run his APS TT set up for over 16,000 miles so far, Zero issues.It seemed with my SC I was down every 1000-3000 mile with a problem.
The Powerband on the TT set up seems alot moother and it is evident on any Dyno graph you see.. Also the power potential for the SC is limited and the higher up in numbers you go with the SC the faster you need to spin the blower and belt and pulley problems become more evident as HP levels increase..
[snapback]145438[/snapback]​



I think you had the ATI supercharger right ? You may have had lot of problems with your SC but not every one does . After I changed my belt to a gates belt . Ive never had any belt problems or much of any thing go wrong with my Vortech and the set up that wasnt of my own making . As far as the APS TT and the other TT and ST set ups....go over to My350Z...Plenty of people having problems with all the kits...be it a SC , ST, or TT set up . Alot of guys having problems with the APS ST and TT set ups...mostly with the tune.....there are only a couple shops in the whole USA that can tune the Unichip piggyback that APS has with their kit . Turbonetic's flashes the stock ECU , so you have to send your ECU back and forth...who knows how many times to ge it right .
The point Im trying to make is...dont expect to drop in any kit and be trouble free....some may get lucky and not have an issue at all...some will have a hard time figuring out problems and getting them working can be a bitch . Over on the other forum....there are guys that cant make more than 5psi on there Vortech and cant figure it out . There is a guy with a APS ST that loses boost after 4500rpm and cant figure it out...APS cant either . Several APS TT set ups running richer than ****...in the 9's for A/F....APS say to buy more of thier stuff to fix it . Send the unichip back and forth how many times to get it right .
If you decide to buy a kit of any kind.....feel lucky if you can drop it in and NOT have any issues . But be ready to be able handle the frustration of trying to figure out problem when they arise
[snapback]147471[/snapback]​




I dont know what your referring to about the GATES belts, my ATI always ran Gates belts @ $100 a pop from ATI, and I shredded more belts than you can count. My particular ATI may have been a bad one, but I just rather not have the extra moving parts under my hood creating friction and heat, not to mention parasitic loss of HP. what alot of people do not realize is that spinning a SC adds extra strain on the engine in the form of parasitic loss of HP. Who knows how much, I always assumes %5-7 or so. So what people do not account for is that for a SC to make the same HP as a turbo PEAK it will have to be making more flywheel hp than the turbo.
Asfar as people having tunning issues with the aps, its not an issue, it needs to be fine tuned as does any high hp setup.
 

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Turbocharger setup, just a preference. With the 350Z, turbocharger setups will take you alot further than supercharger setups.

For domestics...such as a Mustang, I don't mind using a roots-type though. I just prefer roots-type superchargers if i'm going to run a s/c.
 
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