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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

I had my 350z for a year (got mine with the first allocation in February of 2002) before leaving it garaged with the folks in Melbourne for the last two years while I've been working overseas. My stint is almost over and I'll be enjoying my car soon enough!
I am thinking of going for a supercharger mod - I know that at least Stillen and Vortech offer kits. Does anyone know any places in Melbourne that sell & installs these, and any idea of pricing?

Thanks,
Alan
 

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hey al!!

finally!...welcome to the forums matey. its good to see that youre out and about asking questions. you'll find plenty of resources and helpful people here in the forums that can help out with your queries and question. since this being your first post. keep it coming and im sure you ll get replies soon enough.

As with your queries on supercharger kits i think i know for sure theres a place in dandy that installs vortech superchargers but not too sure of the prices. you might want to check out hypertech as well, when you get back to melbourne in the next couple of months. and for the the rest the members residing in melbourne, im pretty sure they can help you out, for my knowledge is limited.

cheers
owen
 

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Vortech superchargers can be supplied by CAPA. Even though they're based on Adelaide, is not too bad to have it shipped from there.

Not sure how many people have experience fitting them, though.


Maybe Mr Rizk can shed some light on how the power delivery of the centrifugal 'chargers are, though. I haven't been in one, but one of my friends (whose automotive opinion I trust since his mechanical ability far exceeds my own) drove a BMW with one, and he didn't like the power delivery. Too peaky if you aim its peak efficiency near redline (which is what the BMW had set up), and too inefficient if you get peak efficiency lower and use a bypass valve (which is why the BMW owner didn't).


The Stillen's blower will be "always on", so it'll just add grunt everywhere. Not sure who'd fit one, though.
 

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You'd have to give serious consideration to the APS TT - there's miles of stuff on this forum - and all set-up in Melbourne.

Here's a nice little unit I once considered, but the feedback on the USA forums was very negative about the Company.

Anyway, I can beat Harry as standard! (Private jk)

FRIZZLE
 

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Anyhoo:

Welcome to the board...

I would go for APS TT kit though if I were you... because their systems are all well tested and If and only if you need any help, you know where to find those, especially after spending 10 over thousands... I would love to have Nismo downunder when we had problems with idle on those large cams on my car... but too bad... they are not here although I am using their products... Just my honest opinions here!

cheers,

richie
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the replies guys... I do need to do more digging. The reason I was thinking supercharger as opposed to TT was because my price range was 5-10k as opposed to the 15k+ for the TT, and that is where I assumed the supercharger price would slot in.

Alan
 

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Anyhoo:

What ECU are you using if you want to go for the Supercharge kit? If you are going for the HKS one, you will need to find a HKS authorised dealer in Australia to tune the ECU for you with F Con Pro V... and we don't have any such dealer in Melbourne... and I think HKS price might be just over 10K after installation as well... because the kit itself is around 8K AUS already I would say...

I will strongly suggest you to wait for a while then go for the APS TT kit if a FI job needs to be done...

And if you want to go into HyperTech, PM me first and I can accompany you in as I know the managing director of HyperTech myself very well (family friend) and he was pushing me to go for HKS Supercharger kit instead of nismo N/A route... so he might know more about it!

cheers,

richie
 

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al....from what richie is saying i guess the comparrisons in the price difference of the two kits seem to be very similar. i agree with rich. if you can fork out at least 15k for a TT kit then i reckon it will be money well spent. peter can sort you out when you get back. just give him a buzz and im sure he will help you out no worries. and croydon isnt too far from your place too.

cheers
owen
 

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APS single turbo is USA only as far as I know.
 

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Jarek:

You are correct.... I spoke to Peter... because my friend is quite interested in the ST kit... but it is not available in Australia as APS Peter believes that the TT kit is more balanced than the ST... I am sure peter will explain this...

cheers,

richie
 

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I also recall that the ST kit doesn't have cats and that's the major reason why they will not sell it in australia.
 

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The HKS is different than the vortech and ati so it is hard to compare since I have not driven the other varients. Now what I can comment on is the HKS unit. To me it has an abundance of torque and just feels linear. Basically a Z with a bigger motor. Nothing like a turbo kit where you get the push in the seat feeling like you do in a wrx or s15 etc.

If i was to pick a SC i would go for the HKS or ATI unit. The HKS is complete and the ATI will require a few extra bits to make it a little safer.

The HKS kit retails for AU$15K + Install last time I checked. The F-CON S that comes with the unit is a straight plug-in and runs quite well on oz fuel and does not require and mods to the ECU harness. My AF/R was a little on the rich side and I think a little too much timing is being pulled out at top end. Other than that I think it is a great kit.

Hope this helps
 

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Mr RIZK:

How much KW has your car pulled out with the HKS supercharge kit? Anywhere close to the APS TT kit? THanks!!

cheers,

richie
 

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I think it was davids car that was dyno'd at autotech. They said that his car pulled 280kw at the wheels but when they demo'd it it only made 260kw. I don't know what gear they did his in nor if they used the same input variables as they were debating on what mode to stick mine in.

Mine made 220kw in 5th

I can tell you now that the TT will always make more power. It simply moves more air for the approx same psi.

It would be nice to see the TT vs the SC to see how much the TT will pull on the SC.
 

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THanks MR RIZK:

That sounds like a very nice machine and the gain too!!! Good on ya!!! It will be cool to see the comparison side by side though... but it is also hard to get a APS TT and a SC car together here in Australia!

cheers,

richie
 

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Originally posted by MR RIZK@Aug 8 2005, 06:19 PM
I can tell you now that the TT will always make more power. It simply moves more air for the approx same psi.
[snapback]143289[/snapback]​


A turbo will always make more than a supercharger at the same PSI because a turbo does not have the parasitic power drain that the supercharger causes on a motor due to it being driven via a belt attached to the crank pulley.

ie it probabally takes 20kw to turn the supercharger, where a turbo does not have this because it runs off the heat energy from the exhaust which is normally just wasted. Turbos are much more efficient because of this.
 

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Originally posted by mchapman@Aug 9 2005, 10:56 AM
ie it probabally takes 20kw to turn the supercharger, where a turbo does not have this because it runs off the heat energy from the exhaust which is normally just wasted. Turbos are much more efficient because of this.


That's a little misleading.

There is power loss from the turbo system. Try sticking a big restriction in your exhaust just after the exhaust manifold (but without the dense air payoff), and see what happens to your performance.

Its just that the loss because of a an "exhaust" air compressor is less than a "crank" air compressor.


The other point of efficiency for an exhaust turbocharger is that flow control can be done with less loss than a crank turbocharger (and I'm using the literal definition of turbocharger, i.e. a "turbine air charger" which the HKS, ATI, Vortech etc are and the Stillen Roots-type blower is not).

Crank turbocharger technology hasn't progressed to a point where there's a CVT between the crankshaft and the input shaft of the turbine, so you've only got 1 gear that increases your compressor wheel speed linearly with engine RPM. You can't run gears like a drivetrain transmission, since that would really **** with your power delivery (and make ECU tuning a very expensive exercise).

The "simplest" solution would be to run peak boost at your rev limiter, which means you'll never overboost. Of course, it also means that you make half of peak boost in your midrange, which would make it feel kind of lifeless down low.

The most common solution is to run a bypass valve. It acts as a wastegate on the intake side. You gear your crank turbine to run peak boost at a different RPM point, which isn't redline, and once that boost is exceeded it opens up and holds the boost steady.

Of course, your turbine doesn't hold that speed and boost in the midrange. So your parasitic loss doesn't taper off once you hit peak boost, but your "power-up" does. So, there's less efficiency.

With an exhaust turbocharger, the energy supply (exhaust gas) bypasses your restriction through the wastegate, and flows out in a relatively unrestricted manner (which is what we ultimately want). That means once you hit peak boost, the downside to having an exhaust turbo doesn't apply to the gases that aren't making you power.


The other thing is your choice of turbine is also restricted, to a point where you can never have the "perfect" one for your application. Turbines have a peak efficiency zone, which is a function of pressure and RPM.

So, on a crank turbine that hits maximum boost in the midrange, if you choose a compressor that hits peak efficiency at peak boost then as your RPM increases it exceeds its efficiency, and starts overheating the charged air (overheat relative to the heat imparted in its efficiency range, I know that it will always make the air hotter to some degree).

Alternatively, you can have it hit peak efficiency higher in the rev range, but it means your turbine is running below peak efficiency from its maximum boost.

With an exhaust turbine, you can choose a turbo that's right in the meat of its efficiency range based on the amount of boost you want to run and your engine's exhaust properties. Once you hit your ideal boost, your compressor spins no faster so it never falls off the other side of the curve.


There's probably a shitload of stuff I'm missing as well as to why exhaust turbochargers are a technically more elegant solution (ignoring the specific applications).
 
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