[matthewb]

G'day again guys

Been a member for awhile now having come across with most of you from the other site - my350z Forum. Read this stuff almost daily but don't write much coz i don't know enuff about the technical aspects. Which leads to my question:
I have a stock 05 Track which i am keen to make some changes to, but i want to keep it clean and simple so the changes are subtle. From what i hear getting a new exhaust (APS or HiTech) is the best place to start. When you do this though, what other changes do u need to do - like tuning, unichip etc? And who is responsible for doing this? Is it the installer of the exhaust?
Also while this might increase the airflow outbound of the motor, does this mean i should do something about increasing the flow of air into the motor? I saw a fantastic silver Zed in Melbourne that had a vent in the left side of the front panel - but i dont really know what this was connected to inside the engine bay but i doubt it was connected to the stock air filter.
Anyway thanks for all the info u guys have already passed on - and any info will be appreciated...

 

[mickyboy]

If adding an aftermarket exhaust, there is no need to do any further tuning.
If you do exhaust and intake there is still no need to add a chip for tuning.
However, if you do all your mods first and then decide to add an aftermarket chip, then you may find that you can extract a little further power.
Personally the gains when 'chipping' are moderate, but some have said driveability and fuel economy is slightly better.

See current threads running in this forum on modding, intakes and in the APS day. Most of the info is there.

Also, tweaks to the suspension system may also give you a good BFYB if you don't like to slow down for corners.

Cheers

 

[jinxxycat]

Good advice Mickey. You don't HAVE to get a chip to enjoy the enhancements of "better breathing". The vent (was it drivers side or pass side? are you RH drive or LH drive there?) was most likely cosmetic unless they have F/I. A hole in the place that is directly infront of the stock air box would increase airflow, but I don't know really how much of a difference it would make.

 

[matthewb]

[/quote]
Passenger side - right in front of the stock airbox (assuming that was all that was there). Looked good, even if it doesn't make that much performance difference.

Thanks for the advice on chipping also - Mickey :cheers:
I have been reading all the threads on modding - but don't know enuff to make sense of most of it - eg. I am not really sure what a POP charger is? Is it just a non-standard airfilter? If u r going to do the exhaust i assume u should do something with the intake at the same time (POP charger?).

 

[mickyboy]

Ok!

Quick explanation:


*pop-charger = JWT intake = unifilter = pod style filter. These all modify the stock induction system (air intake). Most will give you power gains (small) but will change the sound the car makes when at wide open throttle (WOT). Don't be alarmed it is a nice sound, gives the VQ engine a bit of a roar when planting your foot, people definetely notice it.

*Drop-in filter = K & N replacement filter for stock air filter, no changes to induction (or intake) system, I doubt any power gain and no change in sound. Waste of time really.

Regarding exhaust:
You don't have to do the intake with the exhaust or vice-versa. Most people start at the intake because a pod style filter conversion is relatively cheap and very easy to do.
The exhaust costs alot more and normally needs fitting (but can do yourself if confident). This will give you power (some brands more than others) and will absolutely change the sound the car makes at almost all throttle locations including idle.

Hope this all helps.

PS: the more you search and read up, you will get a hang of it all.

cheers

 

[davidm]

*Drop-in filter = K & N replacement filter for stock air filter, no changes to induction (or intake) system, I doubt any power gain and no change in sound. Waste of time really.

Not that there is any power in differet air-filter (or popchargers), but most tuning houses say that drop-in K&N filter will aid the engine more than a pop-charger.

If anything, I've read a fair few negative things about pop-chargers. But like I said, there's no point getting either if you're expecting any perfromance increase.

 

[mickyboy]

Not that there is any power in differet air-filter (or popchargers), but most tuning houses say that drop-in K&N filter will aid the engine more than a pop-charger.

The major determiner of flow isn't the filter element but the box design itself. A well designed airbox has a flow only 10 per cent or so different with or without a filter anyway.
However saying that, fitting a replacement drop-in filter with the same surface area as the oem filter will bring virtually no benefit. It will probably flow a little better thru the filter (3%) but that is it.
To really increase the volume of air that can be drawn is to fit a larger filter element (and also reduce negative pressure, but that is another story). This can only be achieved by either ditching the oem intake box and fitting a larger one (perhaps from another vehicle), or using a pod-style filter which has a larger surface area. This will allow more cfm of air to be drawn in.
However, as I have said before, the 'gain' can be all but destroyed if the heat sheilding is not adequate and the inflow path is not large enough.

Perhaps it would be better to say that some tuning houses prefer to use K & N style filters. I would only guess, but they probably could not be bothered properly heat sheilding pod filters or spending time re-designing the intake system.

 

[Nuff]

You are forgetting one thing, the stock airbox is extreamly well designed, it's a short ram intake, we are not talking about airbox from commodore or falcon here. Probably the best (as in the cheapest) thing to do would be a drop in k&n filter and maybe a USA Spec Z Air Duct. But I don't think the gains would be very big.

Crawford mentions that the popcharger works best with their plenium. I've the popcharger and the thing I love about it best is the noise at WOT. As the performance gains are minimal.

 

[mickyboy]

I can't comment on the stock airbox design, what I can say is that it's location and where it draws it's air from is good. Without doing flow bench tests on the airbox itself, it is hard to say that it is a good design.
Actually, the commodore and the zed use the same air filter element. Also the V8 SS has quite a high flowing airbox.

I will be running some tests to see if the standard intake picks up it's air from a negative or positive area. This makes a big difference in airflow.

I have a standard airbox, which I could also do some testing to see how it flows, but I have to get motivated to put it back in the car!

cheers

 

[zuffy]

There has been many tests of stock vs CAI vs POD and the only one that improved by 2-3hp was the POD.

I think it's fair to say that Nissan did a great job on the stock design. It can't be said about the plenum though.

 

[Nuff]

The plenum is a problem. I should be getting the angled spacer from AAM group buy. I'm not sure if I should dyno it or not when I recive it. Aparently it should be good for 10hp. It was US$217.19, so the value per hp should be better then popcharger.

 

[sdg]

Hi all,

Here are my thoughts..

Unless you have AUD$20k to spend on the APS twin turbo kit (& other things), then you may as well leave the car as is and just enjoy driving it as much as you can and save up for some good tyres. the standard ones are just awful...

The benefits in adding a 'pod' filter or an exhaust or a 'chip' in isolation are negligible.

But I am curious as to why NISMO is not getting a mention for the exhaust option. I would have thought that a Nismo exhasut (US$900) plus whatever the cost is for the S-Tune Cats plus shipping would be a good starting point. I could not justify spending $1800 on an exhaust from a company in WA that is a good panel beater (acccording to the website).

Cheers

Simon

 

[Nuff]

Simon, for me the aps kit is way more the AU$20, if you went to the APS tech day you would have heard that the upgrading of internals, cooling system and lots of other parts as well if you want to make it just as relible as our stock car. As for me I'll not except any less relibility then what it is stock. David has mentioned that after two years he'll take the kit off, buy another Z and install the kit on it. Well, I'm planing to keep my car for a lot longer then that, so this will not work for me. The only way I can keep the relibility of a stock car is just by doing NA mods. Sort of like Richie did with his car, but I'm first waiting for a cheaper ECU solution then Motec. I'm sure there are others in my situation, and I'm sure there are others for who the APS TT kit is just right.

 

[mickyboy]

Hey Simon,

You are right in what you say. Most of the mods give relative small gains. A bit of a gain here and there all helps (if not the car than our egos?) We are enthusiasts, that's why we do this! Call it a disease, zedorea!!!!

However, I think you are joking when you mention the Nismo stuff right?

Work out the true cost in getting it here and it is probably more expensive than the local stuff. But some people like a brand name and that is their right.

$ for $ the Turbo kits (or S/C) are the best BFYB, but you need much moula's and reliability etc, etc. Also, I would rather spend $2-5K on mods (slight gains, appearence, etc) then blow a whole lot on a kit that will probably cost me alot of money when selling. But each to their own.

Anyway, welcome & keep up the input!

 

[mchapman]

Regarding the Pod filters,

At the tech day they were saying how an exhaust rairly has much of an impact on air/fuel ratios where air filters can have a much larger impact. Which I believe after seeing Mikes car on the dyno with just a JWT pod filter.

The air flow from the pod filter was disturbing the mass air flow meter which was causing it to give incorrect results throwing his air fuel ratio all over the place. When you compare this to mine with the panel filter and exhaust mine looked nearly spot on.

Also when Mike was getting the Unichip tuned, the tuner(Rob) was having problems with it because the pod filter was disturbing the readings, so Mikes going to change to a panel filter and get a retune.

Based on this I wouldnt recommend getting a pod filter on the Zed.

 

[mickyboy]

The air flow from the pod filter was disturbing the mass air flow meter which was causing it to give incorrect results throwing his air fuel ratio all over the place.


There could be alot of things to explain that.

One could be they did not have the correct equipment to get the readings. By that I mean there equipment is set up for the stock intake system.
Perhaps the maps used (standard calibrations) cannot take the pod style filters into account? The bases used for tuning the ratios are different so the software cannot work it out.


If anyone is not going down the 'chip' route than the type of filter they run is irrelevant.

I had my ratios checked by Nissan, and they were slightly lean the first time in two of the furthest cylinders (which is no surprise due to the plenum).
Second time was spot on.

On a Statesman I used to have, I ran a cold air system (with pod) and had no problems when getting a dyno tune. My air flow/fuel ratio's were spot on.

 

[scathing]

Non turbo cars are an absolute bitch (relatively speaking) to get power gains out of on a budget.

The difference for me is that my modifications provide me with more "driving pleasure" (to borrow a marketing slogan) than stock.

The HiTech exhaust on my car permits my car to breathe higher in the top-end. While the numerical power increase may be negligible, the fact that my car now revs almost cleanly to redline means I have more fun wringing out each gear rather than feeling like I'm waiting for the engine, or short shifting.

Logically speaking more pull from the top end should mean more outright power, but a few kilowatts here and there aren't really noticable unless you're good enough to drive your car at its limits.

The Popcharger adds an induction note that's to die for. It really makes the car scream when you rev it out. While it wasn't as good bang for buck as the exhaust (since there was no noticable performance increase) when I'm giving my car a bootful with the windows down I can more clearly hear my engine.

But, short of opening the motor and replacing the cams or putting in higher compression internals, you're not going to see a big increase in power numbers on a NA car.

 

[scathing]

The Nismo exhaust is not mentioned purely because of its price in Australia.

Since we don't have the economies of scale of the US, the only Nismo exhausts I can find are the titanium ones, which go for around AUD$4000 if you purchase it legally (ie with customs and duty). Most Ti exhausts I've seen have been in that bracket.

The Fujitsubo stainless steel catback is around AUD$2500 and when the HiTech and APS give similar power gains at under $2000 they're just not worth it.

 

[sdg]

Thanks all for the great feedback & welcome..

The day after I picked up my car, I installed the K&N panel filter. What difference it made I will never know, but I do feel better knowing it is in there..

Don't get me wrong I understand the subtle pleasures of adding an new exhaust etc. to a car. Perhaps I am just dissapointed with the limited choice available here in OZ.. Normally, the improvements in the spend are more justifiable and realisable.(maybe I am just cheap...) It just seems that as highlighted by 'scathing' the economies of scale here in OZ are not in our favour.

FYI, Installing the APS TT kit is not an option for me.

Hmm... Seems I am wron wron.. Not right.. regarding the costs of the NISMO exhaust.. I will check this out next week by calling the nissan performance parts site (for shipping costs) and my Nissan dealer.... But quite frankly I would prefer to support a local manufacturer. I would just like to see some technical data..

On another note, has anyone had ECU 'Flashed/ updated' by Nissan dealer since purchasing vehicle?. Are they willing to do this, does it make any difference?. How regularly are updates released by Nissan?



Cheers

Simon

 

[mchapman]

MickeyBoy Wrote:
There could be alot of things to explain that.

One could be they did not have the correct equipment to get the readings.

They had very good equipment for getting the readings, better than a Nissan service centre would. They were using a Dyno Dynamics load based dyno which gets the A/F ratio from a high level wideband 02 sensor throughout the rpm while the engine is under load with a large fan forcing air at the front of the car.

By that I mean there equipment is set up for the stock intake system.

There equipment is setup to simulate driving which is what all intakes are supposed to be designed for, so if a pod filter requires a different special setup then it isnt designed to work on the road.

Perhaps the maps used (standard calibrations) cannot take the pod style filters into account?

Either way the stock car with a pod filter had its A/F ratio going up and down when it didnt need to be.

The bases used for tuning the ratios are different so the software cannot work it out.

Which software?

If anyone is not going down the 'chip' route than the type of filter they run is irrelevant.

The results from the wideband 02 sensor say otherwise, Mikes car was stock except for the pod filter when it was giving these A/F readings. Some of the other members who went to the tech day should be able to confirm this.

I had my ratios checked by Nissan, and they were slightly lean the first time in two of the furthest cylinders (which is no surprise due to the plenum).
Second time was spot on.

How were they able to check the air/fuel ratio of the seperate cylinders?

Did they use a wideband o2 sensor and a dyno to get the readings?

I believe they would just plug the consult into the cars computer and get the readings from the narrow band o2 sensors installed in the car from the factory which are not very accurate. Also the o2 sensors are installed after all the headers have merged into one so I dont see how they could get readings from the individuals cylinders?

For your reference the air/fuel ratio started out ok at low rpm and was ok at max rpm but in between it was up and down. It wasnt doing it enough to blow the engine but it is not what you want when you pay money for a power increase and you get these results.

On a Statesman I used to have, I ran a cold air system (with pod) and had no problems when getting a dyno tune. My air flow/fuel ratio's were spot on.

I had a pod filter on my Celica and that seemed ok too, but we are talking about a different car so its not relevant.