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Discussion Starter #1
I went out to Oran Park for a private practice day today. They had the South circuit open (so not the full GP track that the V8 Supercars run), and so I finally got a free run on the track.

It certainly is exciting, especially compared to Eastern Creek and Wakefield Park. The track's altitude keeps changing abruptly, so weight shifting is even more prevalent here than on other tracks. Coupled with the fact that the walls get quite close in places, and it means you're always on your toes.

The Z33 doesn't do too badly on the circuit. The track's a lot tighter than EC and WP, so in some turns you do wish Nissan had used more aluminium and shaved some mass off.

In my first session while learning the track, I did the entire track bar the main straight in 3rd gear, which did mean that I fell off the powerband at times. The VQ35DE does have a wonderful spread of torque so I didn't flounder anywhere, but out of some corners I did notice that I didn't have as much punch as I should have.

In the second session I managed to work it out and use the gears a bit more. I found that punch I was looking for. Recaro is a 2nd gear turn so you can get power going up the slope to get on to the main straight. I also found I was carrying more pace by short shifting into 4th before the dogleg since the VQ35 tails off too much in the top-end.

Anyway, I did time myself on 2 laps in my second session and got around 53.85 seconds. I'm not too unimpressed with that. Unlike my last Wakefield Park visit I was pushing my tyres a lot harder and so I'm getting the benefits of the compromises I've had to make with them.


I've fallen in love with semi-slicks. Those RS-V04s stuck like **** to carpet, and it took around 15 minutes of hammering it on a track that I'd say is just as tight as Wakefield Park before the rear overheated and started squirming on me.

One of my friends in his S15 200SX (which makes about the same power at the wheels as my car and better suspension) would monster me in the straights, but as soon as we hit the bends he disappeared from my rear view mirror.

Mind you, with such highs also come the lows. The front tyres are dead (you can only just make out the tread pattern on them). The rear tyres are not legal, although they still have visible tread. and I think the stupendous amount of grip also made my brake pads work harder than they would since I can stand on them without lockup, and now I have no rear pads and I was scraping the disc all the way home.

It means I'll finally be able to put those Ferodo DS2500s in and give everyone a review. As for tyre choice....can anyone recommend a good street tyre for our car? I'm not sure if I'll get semi slicks again as my only tyre, since I've only had a couple of months use out of them and they can be quite a pain in the backside on the street.


However, if I do decide to get another set of semis they will be the Yokohama Advan A048R's. One of the other guys there today in a Porsche 996 (actually, he's the guy that beat Dean Evans around EC at the supersprint Motor let him take their loaner Z33 on, and his car is a lot less modified than they said in the article) had a set on the rear, and the tyres were head and shoulders above the Dunlop DZ02G's he'd been running previously and my Falken RS-V04's.

They provided better grip, had a longer life, wore a lot more evenly with less marbling, and evidently had stiffer sidewalls since the marbling that was there was not as close to the edge of the tyre.


EDIT: I meant dogleg, not flip flop
 

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They had the South circuit open (so not the full GP track that the V8 Supercars run)

I'm not too familar with Oran Park, so I'm not sure what the 'south circuit' looks like. I take it that the 'souch cirtuit' takes you through the 'coca cola corner':

http://www.thesupercarexperience.com.au/ciropt.html

...and it took around 15 minutes of hammering it on a track that I'd say is just as tight as Wakefield Park before the rear overheated and started squirming on me.

That would indicate to me that maybe your pressures were a too high for the tyres. What pressures were you running (not that I know what pressures your tyres like)?

The front tyres are dead (you can only just make out the tread pattern on them). The rear tyres are not legal, although they still have visible tread.

How many Ks did you get out of them? And how many track days did you get out of them? My set of RE55s has seen 4 track-days already, and I would not be surprised to get around 10 track-days out of them all up.

and I think the stupendous amount of grip also made my brake pads work harder than they would since I can stand on them without lockup...

That sounds like you had some form of brake fade. I don't know whether it was the fluid overheating or the pads, but I would guess that it was the pads. When you overheat the pads (and when they are not designed to work in such high temperatures), then they become literally slippery and no matter how hard you squeeze them, they will not lock up.

I have no problem locking up the brakes at any speed (well, not locking up, but reaching the ABS threashold) while on the track ... though, I do have the Brembos and also pads designed for this kind of work.

...can anyone recommend a good street tyre for our car?

What do you want out of the tyres? eg. Longevity, grip, quietness etc?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yep. The South Circuit takes Coca Cola Corner (S).

I was running around 35psi cold in the tyres. I was running it on 32psi before, but in the cold I found that they'd break away too easily. I probably should have dropped them before the track day.

I got around 8000kms all up on them, which included 2 track days and a handful of country runs. This is on top of the fact that they're daily driven.

I might have exceeded the brake pads' friction threshold. It didn't feel like "fade" per se since the brakes weren't working any less well than when they were cold. I took my out lap pretty easy so I wasn't working the brakes, but I stood on them to make Coca Cola after hitting around 160km/hr and they pulled up fuss free.


I'm after street sports tyres. Longevity, quietness, all-weather grip. I realise that they won't grip as well as my semi slicks will in the dry, but I'd like them to be as grippy as they can be while still lasting more than 10,000kms.
 

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I was running around 35psi cold in the tyres. I was running it on 32psi before, but in the cold I found that they'd break away too easily. I probably should have dropped them before the track day.

I run the RE55s at 24psi (cold). At 30psi+ they also get slipery as they are designed for low pressures and have very stiff sidewalls to handle the low pressures. Even with 24psi they feel 10x as stiff/harsh as my OME RE040s.

Though, different tyres require different pressures and I don't know of anyone how runs (or has run) the RS-V04s.

I got around 8000kms all up on them, which included 2 track days and a handful of country runs. This is on top of the fact that they're daily driven.

That's about as much as I would expect from an R-spec tyre. Even with the Azenis RT215 (which are not R-spec tyres), I did not get much more than 12,000km out of them.

I'm after street sports tyres. Longevity, quietness, all-weather grip. I realise that they won't grip as well as my semi slicks will in the dry, but I'd like them to be as grippy as they can be while still lasting more than 10,000kms.

hmmm, you'd be after 235/50/17s ... right? Either way I'd probably recommend Falken Azenis ST115 (http://www.prostreetonline.com/buy/Falken_..._Touring_Tires/) as a good compromize between wet/dry grip, nongevity and price. I've been pretty impressed with them and they are clearly superior to something like RE040 ... I'd even stick my nect out and say that they are better than S03s. What impresses me about the ST115s is not just their grip, but the fact that even with over 30,000km on them they still grip as well as new ... I can't say that about my RE040s which have been pretty slipery since I they've had over 13,000km on them. The ST115s are on a Mazda 323, but they feel much better than the RE040s on my 350Z or or the CV8-R.

I'd still be interested to find out of the Bridgestone RE070s are available in the 350Z sizes as the Motor mag mentioned 3 or so months ago. If they were, and were reasonably priced, then they'd be worthile trying out but I have a feeling that theyt would not last much more than 15,000km either.

Also I've heard good things about Kumho Ecsta MX (http://www.kumhousa.com/Products/PtnDetail...ction=PtnDetail), but I've never experienced them 1st hand so I can't say what they are like.
 

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Congrats on the 53.85 Scathing!

We've had problems with brake fade at both Oran Park and Eastern Creek, but then we've got the roadster with the crappy brakes!!! Looking to swap them for a set from a GTR in the near future (brembos are a little too pricey to be a serious consideration at this stage).

As for tyre choice, we've had the ST115s on earlier this year and weren't too impressed - they seemed to have a low grip level, nothing like a semi slick, which I'm assuming you're after.

They also seemed to go off pretty quick.

Having said all that- they still make for a fun day at the track ;)
 

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As for tyre choice, we've had the ST115s on earlier this year and weren't too impressed - they seemed to have a low grip level, nothing like a semi slick, which I'm assuming you're after.

ST115 are road-tyres, not semi-slics (ie. R-spec tyres). There's no road-tyre that can compete with R-spec tyres ... in particular on the track.

Or are you thinking of Azenis RT215 which looks like R-spec tyre (but is not)?

ps. Kel, what time did you guys manage at the 'soutch circuit'? I did some quick research andf found out that 53.85 is not too shabby at all. It seems like the super-quick guys can dip bellow 50, but 51s would already make you one of the quicker people there.
 

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Sorry if post was confusing- not inferring the ST115s are semis - it sounded like scathing was after a road tyre with something like semi-slick performance?

I haven't actually done any timed laps at Oran Park (yet!!!) - the day we were out was more for a bit of fun. Plus we had a track day first timer in the passenger seat and didn't want to scare them too much! By the time I jumped in for some proper laps the brake pedal was almost to the floor so I gave up.

Now that you've heard my excuses...... 53s are definitely up there. I haven't seen many 'road' zeds on the track to compare, but haven't heard of anyone going under 50?

We're planning another outing in the next month or so, will definitely post up some times then.
 

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Sorry if post was confusing- not inferring the ST115s are semis - it sounded like scathing was after a road tyre with something like semi-slick performance?

Oh, OK ... I understand now.

Now that you've heard my excuses...... 53s are definitely up there. I haven't seen many 'road' zeds on the track to compare, but haven't heard of anyone going under 50?

You're probably right ... the sub 50 times that I've seen looked more like for heavily modified cars (which are often trainlored in). Here are the times from the Porsche club last year:

http://www.natsoft.com.au/cgi-bin/results....05/2004.ORAN.S1

If I remember correctly, the classes A, B and C are road cars with minor mods (but R-spec tyres are allowed). GT3s could dip into 47 and 48s, but in class B low 51s is about as low as they could get.
 

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I love OP, it's one of my favourite tracks. Especially the flip flop, full biscuit in third gear on a bike, that takes me back!

Been there plenty of times on all three circuits, usually on bikes though. IMO it's not that much of a technical circuit say like the Creek, it's just good fun.

I had the extreme pleasure one day of driving a formula ford around the South Circuit, what a hoot!

As always

H
 

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I don't think the ST115's come in the Touring sizes. You'll find it very difficult to get a tyre that complies with the required load rating and size. There are just 3 that I know of - OEM / Goodyear F1 GSD3 / Pirrelli P Zero Gallo (yellow).
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Originally posted by Kel@Mar 29 2005, 02:00 AM
We've had problems with brake fade at both Oran Park and Eastern Creek, but then we've got the roadster with the crappy brakes!!! Looking to swap them for a set from a GTR in the near future (brembos are a little too pricey to be a serious consideration at this stage).

As for tyre choice, we've had the ST115s on earlier this year and weren't too impressed - they seemed to have a low grip level, nothing like a semi slick, which I'm assuming you're after.


I've got the poverty pack brakes too, since I drive a Touring.

What kind of GT-R are you looking at scoring the brakes from? To my knowledge, the Z33 Track uses the same calipers as the R34 GT-R.

I've heard varying things about the ST115s. Some people find them a good compromise tyre, other people think they're barely average. They're certainly better than the Ziexs, which are the hardest and least gripping pieces of crap I've ever driven on.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm also pulling sub 2 minutes on EC, and that's with my dampers set to minimum damping and in my first session. I think with a bit of tuning and a bit more time to get used to the semi's, I could have dropped it down to the same time that Dean Evans was pulling in a bog stock Track.

What kind of times were you pulling in your car?

My friend in his modified S15 (Dunlop 3000A's, around 160rwkW, and aftermarket suspension) was pulling 58.0 seconds. Mind you, he was taking it very easy because he said he couldn't trust his tyres. Mind you, they showed almost no wear after 3 heavy sessions (just the amount of rubber that balled up and stuck to tread block edges).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I only personally know a handful of cars that will dip into the 40's on OP South. They're all on full slicks.

One of them is the second most comprehensively tuned Silvia I've ever seen, which will do 1:09's around Wakefield Park. While the car is definitely a "streeter" (ie full interior, stereo, no cage, etc) there's been quite a bit of thought into its development path. But to look at, you'd swear it was a near-stock car.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
As for tyres, I'd be quite happy to drop to a 235/45 R17 since that increases tyre choice dramatically.

I drive with the TCS permanently off anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
And there are lower times in the car in that setup. The lap I did wasn't the best one I'd done.

I missed my braking point down the main straight and didn't even flat throttle out of Shell into Rimula.

That time was clocked in my second session (so second time ever on the track) and after that lap I did a cool down lap, pitted in, and found my passenger side rear brake pads had worn themselves down to the backing plate and were scraping against the rotor.

I get the feeling they were gone before that lap, since braking was marginally, but noticably, lower than previously (hence why I missed my turn-in point).
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I've opted for Dunlop Direzza DZ101's. I've heard nothing but good things about the FM901s they replaced, and they are Dunlop's flagship tyre.

They also use silica in their construction, which means they should wear better and have better wet weather grip than the competitor I was considering, the Yokohama AVS V102.
 

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Originally posted by scathing@Mar 30 2005, 02:31 AM

What kind of GT-R are you looking at scoring the brakes from? To my knowledge, the Z33 Track uses the same calipers as the R34 GT-R.



The brakes are from an R32 GTR - apparently they'll fit nicely, all I need to do is get my act together and get something made to bolt them on!
 

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Originally posted by scathing@Mar 30 2005, 02:35 AM
What kind of times were you pulling in your car?



Haven't done a proper lap at Wakefield yet. We did timed sessions during Dutton Rally, but they had us doing a shortened course dodging witches hats and then stopping in a "garage" at the end!

At EC, the car has done a 1.58 (set by my co-driver), again that was during Dutton Rally last year. By this stage, the brakes were squealing (after 3 days of motorkhanas, sprints, hill climbs and drags). This was also with the roof down :wink:

I'm pretty sure there are a few seconds more in her with better tyres and brakes..... and less "new car" fear!
 
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