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Discussion Starter #1
Hello folks,

Want to update you guys on the project that we have down under in Melbourne, Australia. As many of you might have known that we were putting nismo S1 engine parts into my car and the job has finally been done this morning and I finally got to drive the car after a long 2 months wait (including X'mas holidays)... Special thanks to HyperTech's Andy and Eric (aka Eric's Engineering) and Peter/Nathan from Sydney for giving out information from their racing experiences.

To recap you guys on the mods that I had BEFORE the project.... here are the parts and the wheel power I got from them... (Please note that Aussie wheel power numbers are generally lower than what you guys have got in the States, because we are using different dyno machines!)

Performance Parts I had on my car BEFORE S1 parts were put in:

1. Nismo Cat Back Exhaust (US Spec. from Jason at Perf. Nissan)
2. Crawfard Cats (from Doug)
3. JUN Lightweight flywheel
4. UR Crank Pulley
5. K&N Filter
6. UniChip piggy back ECU

And I got around 167rwKW, which is around 227.2 rwHP with all of those 6 mods. from the stock engine... this one was tested by APS Peter at his APS headquarter down here in Melbourne. So before we tuned the car, we had a dyno run again at HyperTech machine and it produces 169.4rwKW, which is around 230.3 rwHP, not far from APS's dyno, so this was used as the base dyno for this project.

Then we put in the following parts to build a better N/A engine, the goal is to rev the engine higher and safer:

1. Nismo VTC Units (55 degrees)
2. Nismo S1 Spec Cams (Int 276 degrees, Exh 256 degrees)
3. Nismo Valve Springs
4. Nismo Con-rod Bolts
5. Fujitsubo Headers
6. MoTeC M600 ECU (to replace UniChip)
7. MoTeC Drive by wire module
8. MoTeC Cam Control Module
9. MoTeC sensors + wires

With those mods, the car sounds like a racing car, most likely due to those higher angle cams and the headers.... car sounds VERY mean and deep... with the exhaust pluses that can be heard when the car is idling at the stand still position (like a WRX with exhaust)...

The car revs up higher up to 7200rpm and with fuel cut set at 7300rpm to be at the safe side.... we are producting at 195.1rwKW, which is around 265.3 rwHP.....

Do a simple calculation... the net gain from this project with those nismo parts + motec..... is 265.3 rwHP - 230.3 rwHP = 35 rwHP

Eric (the tuner at HyperTech -> http://www.pow.com.au/eric.htm) tried many combination of the cams positions and the VTC angels too to get the best out of this car considering this is a STREET car with Air Conditioning being operated everyday.... he told me that he was actually expecting more from those mods, but that's what he can do to a STREET car.... and only if I don't want to have the A/C operating or running poor idling, he could still make quite a fair bit of HP from this car...

And also the only way to make more HP from the current state will be making better intake for those cams to run better... so we might be making some in take tubes and using those plenums/spacers available on the market to make further HP.... I am not too sure at this stage what can be done to make more HP without opening up the engine again or giving it FI (which I would not like to go for after days of days of thinking before the project)...

Hope all of those numbers help some of you guys to decide what to do next with the N/A mods...

ps. MoTeC is the best option we could think of for this engine job... you just need to know who knows MoTeC best and we can handle the job.... MoTeC hardware isn't expensive comparing to other systems out there really... just need to find someone who has experiences with MoTeC before, and you can save some big money!

Here are some dyno charts we generated:

cheers,

richie
 

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Hi Richie,
Thanks for the update ... very informative post. Hopefully you'll come with us next time we go to the Calder drags and see what those numbers translate to in real world.

ps.Your power curve looks great.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
David,

No worries!

I can feel the sudden change of power above 4000 rpm.... and the good thing is that I can pull all the way to 7200rpm, that feels a lot different from the zed that I had 2 months ago.... with the extra 800 rpm, it does make you enjoy the longer push...

I will drop the car off back to the workshop again as I am going overseas for over 1 month and they might do more tunings on the car to make the idle smoother as it is like a race car and it sounds really mean.... well... the idle is very good already especially when the engine is warmed up, but just want to see if they can make it better....

I will see if I can attend the gather next time when I come back from the biz trip..

cheers,

richie
 

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[/quote]


I've to say, the graphs look good. It seems that the spacers/plenum add power right at the top end, from the graphs I've seen. If that's the case, your engine might be making power all the way to redline. Also according to Doug at crawford JWT popcharger with the plenum (or spacer) is a good combination. Another option might be a throttle body like the one from 350evo (I think some one else makes it as well for less). And if you know some one with a flowbench shortening the intake runners is a good idea or just get the lower plenum from 2005 Track. I think you should be able to get past 200KW if any of the dynos from USA are true. By the way, you might want to talk to Nismo Pete about a spacer, since he has one in his workshop I think. The only difference is it's not angled (Wedge shaped) like the latest ones from USA.

By the way, at what rpm does your car idle now with the cams and VTC.
 

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I've noticed one more thing, there seems to be couple of flat spots in the power graph at around 3600 and 5000rpm. Is that where the VTC changes over?

I'm also surprised that you've lost so little power down low.
 

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[/quote]

Hi Richie, :wavey:

First of all congrats on the new found power, sounds like a really nice improvement you've made there to the Z car. :clap:

By the way do you have the torque graphs, the graphs you posted only have power readings no torque readings, would be interesting to see the torque increase from the new upgrades and in particular the bigger cams.

Also what's the cost of the upgrades to generate an additional 30 odd RWkW's as per your mods, this would be nice to know and understand the kW per $ equation.

Thanks

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Nuff:

The current idle is set at around 800 to 900 rpm I would say... somewhere around there.... and when i say that to smooth out the idle is because sometimes when the car is at the stand still position, the rpm will go up and down like 50-100rpm up and down....

The new US spacer might be a good one for us to take a look at along with the EVOR enlarged throttle body... it should be able to push 5 more rwKW without too much of the problem?!

I am not sure where about the VTC changes over though... but I can feel the power different from around 3500rpm onwards and all the way to the redline...

As for the slight power loss at downlow, I can feel a bit under 2000 rpm, that's for sure.... but the engine picks up the rev very fast....

The good thing with MoTeC throttle control is that I can re-program the throttle feel to any state I want... Eric programs it to street use at this stage instead of giving a bit of throttle and the car just jump straight away.... I also notice that with the MoTeC computer, the throttle becomes really accurate and responsive to the driver's input... but the downside of that is.... I don't have the VDC anymore on my car when I use MoTeC to control the throttle (I can opt for Motec one instead, but didn't) and also will need to disable my CEL because of the motec computer...


cheers,

richie
 

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Discussion Starter #8
[/quote]

Hi Richie, :wavey:

First of all congrats on the new found power, sounds like a really nice improvement you've made there to the Z car. :clap:

By the way do you have the torque graphs, the graphs you posted only have power readings no torque readings, would be interesting to see the torque increase from the new upgrades and in particular the bigger cams.

Also what's the cost of the upgrades to generate an additional 30 odd RWkW's as per your mods, this would be nice to know and understand the kW per $ equation.

Thanks

Peter
<div align="right">[snapback]66617[/snapback]
[/quote]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for that...

I have not got any torque graph though... but I can ask them to print me out to see what is the result... they only gave me the power curve at this stage. But according to nismo, with the larger angle cams with the VTC, the turque should not change, that's what the VTCs are for.... also with fujitsubo headers, I am expecting to see some torque increase as well.... so I will ask for the torque graph later...

The upgrade cost quite a lot actually for the N/A tuned car as when we spoke around september time last year... the project costed me a APS TT kit.... so you should know what's the price that I am talking about..... all because it includes MoTeC ECU and its accessories + motec labours.... that is where the cost bumps up a lot...

As I said to many people, this is all about the personal perference on what type of engine people like... and for those people who are seeking for huge power gain, APS TT kit is DEFINITELY a go comparing to spending money on the N/A mods... It is better for those people to DECIDE now instead of putting so much money into the N/A before they realise they want more and more, but have already spent quite a fair bit of money on the car that will go to the drain when the TT kit is fitted... APS TT was seriously within my consideration as I know the price would end up to be the same or N/A will be slightly higher, but 280rwKW for me, I don't think I can handle that at this stage or any stage later for my daily car (which I wouldn't mind to have that at N/A)... once again.... just the different perferences... I think M3 gave me a huge influences, that might be why I didn't go for a R33/34 GTR after selling the m3 or even putting this sort of money + sell my car to get a GTR...

cheers,

richie
 

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There's alot ot be said about a N/A performance car, IMO moreso than any turbo car. More respect given to a nicely built N/A, more of a gentlemans car than a turbo ricer!(not that I would knock one back)
Anyways, go to show you need deep pockets to get more power from the zed!
Richie, if your pockets still have some more moula, keep going, I'd love to see you achieve more!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
micky,

I would love to keep on going... but first of all, need to find more clients buying my softwares before I can do that... I really love the n/a power... and if any of you guys in Melbourne, you are welcome to come check out the car before I leave or after I come back in a moth time... I will leave the car with HyperTech when I am gone, they will put the car in their show room with those R32 (winfield Group A car- Gibson Motorsports), R33 and R34 GTR (Tasmania Rally Car) race cars they built for their customers...

cheers,

richie
 

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Just truck it upto Sydney, I will look after it for the month!

If possible, post some clips. Would love to hear the idle with that cam!
 

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Sounds pretty awesome. I want to cam up my engine, but I also want to hang on to my warranty. I would love an extra couple of thousand RPM and for the car to breathe up there. Like you, I don't really need that much torque down low and I'd be happy to trade them.

Given that the MoTeC chip is fully programmable, have you considered running multiple maps? Use your current tune for street use, but if you're going to go play on the track (or the street) ;) where you're not fussed about aircon and the rest, you could load a more aggressive tune in.

I'm not sure if the MoTeC will support multiple, switchable maps internally (although I assume it would, given its reputation) but you could always just pack a cheap old laptop into your car and swap them that way instead.

I know there are some ECUs that allow you, at the flick of a switch, to choose between various maps that are loaded into its EPROM.
 

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Originally posted by Z350Lover+Jan 29 2005, 06:55 AM-->
Hi Pete,

so I will ask for the torque graph later...
Thanks mate and please post the torque graph when available, this would be excellent to see.

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 06:55 AM
The upgrade cost quite a lot actually for the N/A tuned car as when we spoke around september time last year... the project costed me a APS TT kit.... so you should know what's the price that I am talking about..... all because it includes MoTeC ECU and its accessories + motec labours.... that is where the cost bumps up a lot...


Yeah I thought the cost would be up around 16k, good on you for being brave enough to be a pioneeer and go down this path to see what's possible from the engine in N/A form, hope your really pleased with the mods so far.

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 06:55 AM
As I said to many people, this is all about the personal perference on what type of engine people like... and for those people who are seeking for huge power gain, APS TT kit is DEFINITELY a go comparing to spending money on the N/A mods...


Well it's certainly a lot of money for the extra power you gained though it's some times nice to see what else is possible and someone has to see what amount of power is possible for the $$$$ spent, I respect you for giving this option a chance.


Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 06:55 AM
It is better for those people to DECIDE now instead of putting so much money into the N/A before they realise they want more and more, but have already spent quite a fair bit of money on the car that will go to the drain when the TT kit is fitted...


Fair comment and it's all about what type of power you like, some people prefer N/A power, each to there own of course, I prefer turbo power (well turbo torque to be precise) though it all comes down to your budget and own personal preference.

<!--QuoteBegin-Z350Lover
@Jan 29 2005, 06:55 AM
APS TT was seriously within my consideration as I know the price would end up to be the same or N/A will be slightly higher, but 280rwKW for me, I don't think I can handle that at this stage or any stage later for my daily car


Fair comment, 280 to 320 RWkW's is not for the faint hearted and can be a real handful to get that amount of power to the ground, in any event congratulations on your build up to date and I hope you have many kms of enjoyment from your Z car.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. :yourock:

Peter
 

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Discussion Starter #15
[/quote]

Scathing:

I am not too sure if motec can be able to do this kinda thing though... but of course it will always be good to have that.... I know that I can use laptop to plug into the motec computer and tune the car that way or even set up the traction control option to suit my own driving style... you can do all sort of that... just not too sure if it has the option of switching from one program to the other.... I will try to find that out!!


APS Peter:

Thanks.... always respect the turbo power because it is easier to get a large amount of power that user wants, and also it is very hard to get the engine tuned up correctly... I would say APS has done a very good job there on the TT kit... and was very pleased to know that the zed with TT has the ability to take a R34 GTR without too much of the problem at all... RESPECT!!! Would like to see a comparison between those cars one day though...

BTW Pete, is APS gonna have the sheilded crank angle sensor wire for sale individually soon?

cheers,

richie
 

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Discussion Starter #16
[/quote]

I will see what I can do though...

cheers,

richie
 

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[/quote]

Thanks Richie and the R34 GTR has lots of potential for power, I did run a R34 a couple of months back and hosed him easily though the R34 was fairly stock to be fair, just had a big exhaust, air cleaner, and boost controller.

To say that the TT 350Z surprised him would be an understatement, pulled over and talked with the guy for a while, he was a really good guy and his R34 GTR was immaculate, a beautifully kept car.

Looking into producing a new sheilded crank angle sensor loom at the moment, will post more when I have further info.

Thanks

Peter
 

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APS: I think for some of us N/A is the only option even if it is the same cost outright. For one my insurance is $3500 per yer, if I would install a turbo kit it would go up, if i stay NA it will increase slightly. If I modify this car I'm going to keep it for quiet a while, I want to make sure that the engine relible. Going N/A is a sure way to achive that goal since there are less things that can go wrong. Less hussles with insurance and for me it would be way cheaper in the long run as well.

Richard: How do you think the power compares to your M3?
 

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[/quote]

Gee car insurance must be expensive up your end of the world, I have my TT Z fully insured and the cost was $2400.

Peter
 

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I've read in Super Street mag. that the following combination will give 300 tested WHP for a north american Z:
JWT popchager $120
JWT cams $1000
Borla Headers $600
Borla True Dual exhaust $750

US$2470 gain: 50~60 HP

I love pure engines.. if I have the money I'll do this:
cams
headers
Intake
pulleys
flywheel
testpipes
true dual exhaust
plenum
oil cooler
ecu

estimated numbers around 330 whp
 
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