Nissan 370Z Tech Forums banner

1 - 20 of 74 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I was at the gym tonight, and there was a tae kwon do class in progress. There's a matted area in the gym that lets an instructor teach classes there at different times of the day. As I was lifting, I was watching their form (as usual) to see how well the instructor teaches or how well the students pay attention. I came to the conclusion that it's about 50/50. I also feel that the instructor might not care enough about some of his students but just collects their money.

Now it seems that the past few years have seen a boom in documentaries, movies, classes, special aerobics, and dojos popping up like mushrooms. In one sense, that's a good thing because it's still an unknown type of 'activity' that has a lot of interesting history to it. On the other hand, I feel it dilutes and corrupts some true forms and allows the history of the art to be lost.

I've taken several different kinds of arts, and I judged that with what I know, my confidence level, and the fact that I take what I learn seriously, I can avoid most confrontations or protect myself or others. However, it seems that a lot of people I see practicing in dojos as I pass by their wide open windows are not taking it seriously or have really bad form and are not concentrating. I also know some people (very few) who get caught up in a new style or do it for fitness but don't stick with it.

It's a shame that some people who practice an art for just a few years think they have what it takes to teach a class. I have lived in many cities around the country and some parts of the world, and I have yet to find the elusive true master of any art that can teach not only the fighting style but also the history and respect that it deserves.

What do you guys think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
315 Posts
Although traditional martial arts (TMA) has deep history and tradition, it's not as practical as it used to be. From a self-defense point of view. Nowadays people are looking at a gun, issues are not settled the same, even when compared to 20 years ago. Also take in the account of mixed martial arts (MMA), you have a totally different breed of fighters. A person taking classes at a place that offeres wrestling, bjj, boxing, muay thai, will do better defending themself against an attacker than a karate/tae kwon do practitioner.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,332 Posts
Uh oh...

The problem here is we can no longer compare apples to apples.. There is a broad spectrum of martial arts going on now around the world. You are right, that martial arts schools are popping up left and right, seems they are becoming very, very common.

There are traditional schools that are very strict and teach very authentic techniques. Americans usually get turned off by these schools because they are very hard work (boot camp?) On the other hand... there are the easy schools who are there to make money.. They will make the classes easy and "meet your needs" as long as that pay check is coming in every month.

Then there are the schools who are just flat out lying.. They are teaching punching and kicking and calling it karate, tae kwon do or whatever else.

Then there are the tournament schools... "Point fighting". They aim to get trophies... Sure they work hard and probably have a fun time, but playing tag in a ring is not what i consider a martial art.

There are a few issues to consider:
1. americans typically do not know much about martial arts history / authenticity
2. americans want "matrix" style fighting.. lots of amazing looking moves

Thus a new breed of martial arts schools has been born. Give a demo showing some nice sweeping high kicks and you will have people signing up left and right.. Uh Oh.. you forgot to tell them it is going to take YEARS to be able to do what they see in the movies (also most movie fighting is not practical or efficient)

Americans want the easy street... They want to walk into a class 2 times a week for 1hour increments. They feel good about it and probably brag about taking karate to their friends over a few beers.

.. sorry if this was sporadic.. its late and i have alot of thoughts on this subject..(i study tang lang quan)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Good points. I could still take someone out who has a gun using my hands if I had to. However, 99.9% of the ppl in this world probably would pee their pants. Of course, the situtation would have to be perfect, but it can be done. But yeah, times have changed and weapons seem to overshadow most confrontations.

I didn't realize that some schools do the point thing. Also, those high kicks ARE impractical and are all show. They were trying to do that last night at my gym. One guy with a red belt who was the oldest in the class was doing such weak ass kicks that I was embarrassed for him. If he can't do it, he's going to expose himself to a dangerous counterstrike. I just can't imagine the damage that could be done with the amount of time it takes to react to those long sweeping moves. That's what got me to thinking that the teacher didn't care.

When I was taking JJ, we shared the dojo with a karate class. Every now and then, the best and brightest from the karate class would 'spar' with us. It was no contest, seeing that they didn't know what to do once they were on the ground. But they were good at karate at least.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,332 Posts
Disarming someone with a weapon is very possible.. more so than most people think.. Typically, the person with the weapon "assumes" they have the upper hand and NEVER expect someone to attack them. When it does happen, they are caught by surprise and will most likely panic.

But of course if you are going to attack someone with a weapon you better have the skills and willpower to follow through.. If you start the attack, you had better finish it. That is something that is scary. Some people who think they are learning martial arts are really just getting great excercise and false confidence. If they were in a situation where they attempted to disarm someone without REALLY know what they are doing, then that would lead to certain disaster.

In our system we rarely kick, and never kick high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,728 Posts
http://fight2survive.com/founder.aspx#top

I think I've p[osted this link here before.

I'm a BJJ guy, not much striking experience. Not disciplined enough to do the 'dance' of a traditional art. Americans don't have the att. span (or time)....I don't live in a monastery, work, etc. so I need something that's simple & works. I respect kung fu/tkd, karate, but I've seen these guys consistently beaten in the ring...by ground & pounders, bjj, etc.

What's great is that there are a lot of schools & styles available since this 'boom', & just about anybody can find a style and intensity level that suits them. I just did it to stay in shape, learn some tricks. I already have a lifestyle.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,332 Posts
not to knock BJJ, but its not a practical street fighting art (at least in my opinion).. Those guys get in the ring and lay on their backs getting pumelled for 20 minutes before winning some times.. This is not something i want to do int the streets especially if there are multiple attackers.

**edit.. what i really meant was.. it is not a good thinking to compare ring fighting to street fighting. Alot of kung fu techniques are lethal, and or are meant to destroy organs/bones/joints (not the same as joint locks).. this is pretty much no-go territory in the ring, but is fair game when your life is on the line (at least in Texas :irock: )
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
:lol: Fair game in Texas...that's good.

I took 2 years of judo and 9 months of BJJ. At first I did it for fitness, but then I got into the history and liked the hands-on application.

That stuff in the ring for grappling is unreal! I can't believe a guy that thinks he's that good will let himself get pinned for that long without trying to squirm out. There are plenty of techniques when you're on the ground. I like choking when I'm on the bottom.

I used to spar in BJJ with a guy who had taken over 10 years of either kung fu or wing chung (boy, I hope I didn't say that wrong). That dude was badass and had certain pressure points down pat.

And no, I don't have the patience to learn all the katas of certain arts. I tend to stay away from those now. TKD was my first art I tried, and it left a bad taste in my mouth.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,332 Posts
Different arts fit different types of people (body types) as well. I do have the patience to stay with what i am diong for years and years untill i have become as good as i can possible be.. Its a challenge, but adds new levels to my overall lifestyle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,728 Posts
There are some real good BJJ street techniques. You will not see them on UFC. A LOT of fights end up on the ground....& I wouldn't want to be a striker on the ground...

I trained with a guy who studied pressure point techniques.....plus an entire wall of MA books vids in his apt. He trained BJJ & Muay Thai....a very complementary combo.

In BJJ, they teach us to close the distance quickly, as most striking techniques are negated in a clutch...There are some (elbows/knees) exceptions.

Some of the street techniques we learned are straight up judo, others unique to BJJ.

Props to anyone with a school. Get out there & represent!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
These schools are commonly referred to as McDojo's, it's a sad phenomenon.

A good rule of thumb is the harder the teacher is on the student,s the better the school.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
145 Posts
I think that alot of the McDojo's (or for TKD, since it is a Korean art, McDo-jangs) are the result of the popularity of MA for kids as a form of building discipline, patience, self-control, etc., particularly as an after-school care type of program. My son is only 5, and his instructor is a true TKD master, having practiced the art since he was younger than my son, graduated from a university where MA was his 'major', and having trained the Korean military forces in the use of MA. At 38, he's lived in this country for about 5 years, and while he certainly shows some leniency towards the younger kids, he pushes them every bit as hard as they're capable of without making them hate coming to class.

While we Americans certainly like things the easy way, I'm happy that my son is in a TKD school where it is unacceptable to show up with a dirty uniform (do-bok in the native tongue), it is unacceptable to face the master while adjusting your uniform, etc. Bowing to the flags (both Korean and American) is courteous and proper when entering and leaving the floor, and respect is due all higher ranking belts. This instructor teaches a pure form of TKD as recognized by the WTF, though there don't seem to be any other schools around here with a similar belt system. For him, teaching TKD includes teaching some history of its' country of origin, etc. During warm-ups, students must be able to count in Korean, and most of the routine communication is done in Korean as well. I think it is a very well rounded program. The adults learn the art at an entirely differentl level of pace, difficulty and progression. There is an expectation that you will practice on your own time to learn the forms and techniques that are required. He cuts the adults no slack. I don't study there, but I've watched the adult classes, and it is reminicent of Army Basic training.

My son is probably still 18 months to two years away from his black belt, but at 5, he is required to learn the same forms as the teenage kids. While at this age, he might not be able to apply the art practically to a defense situation (and shouldn't have to), he's learning fundamentals that will make him an effective weapon in his own defense should it be required in his adult life.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So the other day, my son is at his karate class. He has 2 friends from his school that are also in this. My son is a few days behind, but he is already better than them anyway. Anyway, one of the 'friends' is getting tested for his next stripe on the belt. The kid doesn't get it and momma throws a conniption (sp) fit and quickly leaves.

The teacher comes over and basically feels like apologizing to the friends' parents. She even explained that the kid was given 3 chances to get it right. What a shame that the parent feels they are paying to boost the kid's esteem instead of teaching him discipline among other things.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
16,332 Posts
So the other day, my son is at his karate class. He has 2 friends from his school that are also in this. My son is a few days behind, but he is already better than them anyway. Anyway, one of the 'friends' is getting tested for his next stripe on the belt. The kid doesn't get it and momma throws a conniption (sp) fit and quickly leaves.

The teacher comes over and basically feels like apologizing to the friends' parents. She even explained that the kid was given 3 chances to get it right. What a shame that the parent feels they are paying to boost the kid's esteem instead of teaching him discipline among other things.
That is the American way isnt it? Reward mediocrity.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That is the American way isnt it? Reward mediocrity.
I suppose. :headshake: Unfortunately, our society thinks everything is owed to them, including child care from teachers.

I just thought it was funny that the kid didn't get the 'promotion' and his mom went ballistic. :lame: I feel for her since she's a single mom and has a different outlook on life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,180 Posts
werd. It's very sad, but what can you do. I started with a lot of traditional stuff (my uncle is hardcore traditional shotokan and judo). Had my share of other traditional arts...but then got sick of forms and just wanted the actual fighting..so from there did a lot of standup and ground. I don't train anymore mainly because I can't find schools that don't have wussy people. They want to learn, but then are afraid to get hit. What are they expecting? The bad guy to wait for them to go put on their gear and helmets? It's just a joke. Towards the end of my tenure at my dojo I got so sick of the wussy kids...everytime we sparred I just wrecked them..a few of them cried. But ****..if you cant take it when the other guy has gloves on, then just give up on the fighting and do the tradition.

Now, I still respect the tradition, and love the history of it all, but when it comes down to it, I still rather be practical and do what I do. It is a shame the americans for the most part can't discipline themselves enough to dedicate to an actual martial art.

as for belts...for the last two years or so that I was at the dojo I refused to wear my belt. It meant nothing to me, when some douche can get brown or black, and I could knock them on their ass, or choke them out just with brute strength. (I was at brown for kempo). The funny part was that since I didn't wear my belt I was technically beltless...so I had to stand at the end of the line behind the white belts. twas great. lol...the mischeif I had with that one. WHOOPAGE!

thanks for starting this thread dave...it let me vent a lot of my feelings on this matter. I kinda want to get back into it...cept if I do start up again I will be moving to internal arts. I think I'm done with external...the damage I can cause with that...mmmm
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
35,304 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
lol! Matt the mysterious warrior!

I used to try traditional arts like TKD and karate, but it bored me. Then I got into judo and JJ and loved it. I used to wail on guys in karate who spared with me and my judo/jj buddies. I would go to competitions to get exposure to different styles and try to learn how to get my ass kicked. :nutkick:

Eventually, I moved around too much and couldn't find a true school that appealed to my yearning for something pure. I also got hurt pretty badly during my last competition and decided that I needed some time to heal my bruised tailbone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,180 Posts
actually now i mostly jsut lift weights. lol. ive been wanting to get back and do some standup and ground...just to see what the difference is.
 
1 - 20 of 74 Posts
Top