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do u guys know what i can do to my car to get rid of the vortech lag ? but i dont have internals and dont plan to get them soon so something safe that can reduce the lag that my vortech has?
 

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Originally posted by Napoleon@Aug 17 2005, 04:24 AM
do u guys know what i can do to my car to get rid of the vortech lag ? but i dont have internals and dont plan to get them soon so something safe that can reduce the lag that my vortech has?
[snapback]146384[/snapback]​

A well thought out nitrous system can give you power early and taper off as you get into your Vortech boost. Personally, I don't think its worth the risk, tho.
 

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Originally posted by Napoleon@Aug 17 2005, 02:24 AM
do u guys know what i can do to my car to get rid of the vortech lag ? but i dont have internals and dont plan to get them soon so something safe that can reduce the lag that my vortech has?
[snapback]146384[/snapback]​


Not sure what you mean by lag. Please explain in greater detail.. The unit will not go into boost in 1st but should immediately get into boost in 2nd and increase linearly up to full boost as you go up in gear. If you want more tq/hp then a smaller pulley will help there..The blower being driven by the crank follows the engine rpm..The 3.12 pulley at engine rpm of 6800 will put the unit at peak efficiency.. Hope this helps.. What boost levels are you seeing?
 

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Mine no laggy!
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Originally posted by Barzten1@Aug 17 2005, 10:02 AM
Mine no laggy!
[snapback]146505[/snapback]​


what did u put in it so it wasnt so laggy? the prob with mine its starts giving full boost at 4500rpms, i had a chance to run with a friends greddy tt, i got him pretty bad after 2nd gear it seemed like the vortech had more top en power, but i drove his and he definatly has more torque, i just dont want any more lag so where can i get that pulley? and is it safe on stock internals?
 

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Originally posted by Napoleon+Aug 18 2005, 08:30 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Barzten1
@Aug 17 2005, 10:02 AM
Mine no laggy!
[snapback]146505[/snapback]​


what did u put in it so it wasnt so laggy? the prob with mine its starts giving full boost at 4500rpms, i had a chance to run with a friends greddy tt, i got him pretty bad after 2nd gear it seemed like the vortech had more top en power, but i drove his and he definatly has more torque, i just dont want any more lag so where can i get that pulley? and is it safe on stock internals?
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full boost by 4500rpm?? That doesn't seem right. I'd check all your hoses, and lines for leaks, and try a different pully. do you have a boost gauge? Are you monitoring exactly when you hit 7.5psi, or whatever the Vortec set base boost is at?

I have a feeling, that you went up against that GReddy TT and you ran significantly slower than him because a TT setup will inevitably beat your vortec in a street race all day long. The Vortec does not have more top end power than the raw power of a single or twin turbo setup. Fact is, you have increased your power linerary as apposed to a TT setup which ultimately has a sudden charge of breath taking power.

Good luck,
AdamB.
 

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Superchargers have no lag. They begin making power at any RPM. One of the major downsides to superchargers, though, is that you don't achieve maxium boost until redline. Turbos, on the other hand, don't begin making power until around 3k, but are at full boost from then on
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
centrifugal superchargers do have belive me!! its not my first vortech on a car, and yes vortech is faster on top en, didnt u reed speed magazine?
 

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I don't think I've ever even seen Speed Magazine. But a certifugal supercharger doesn't have lag like a turbo does, it just builds boost slower than other styles of superchargers.
 

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Originally posted by Napoleon@Aug 18 2005, 10:58 AM
centrifugal superchargers do have belive me!! its not my first vortech on a car, and yes vortech is faster on top en, didnt u reed speed magazine?
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MIYAPLAYA, please do the honors and explain to this gentleman why most big turbo cars are typically always faster top end, especially in this case between the vortec and GReddy TT.

Forget what the magazine said... That is all written analysis... On the road it's whole different ball game. Ask any real racer... Doesn't matter if your SC or TC... lol I live my life at at a quarterpounder at a time.. for those 10 seconds or less, I'm free! hehe "playa"
 

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I'll try to explain myself...
the turbo's run of exhaust velocity, not a belt system such as vortec.
It all has to do with velocity and rpm of the impellars
exhaust air has a lot more energy then a belt can ever have. The higher the rpm, the more exhaust flow will be created.... The more exhaust flow created, thus in turn gives more boost top end (given you have a turbine that can support the high rpms) and will allow your turbo system to perform quicker.

In theory, the SC reaches its full potential early in the rpm band and then sustains air flow, as opposed to a turbo which can flow ungodly amounts of air provided that it has the proper exhaust/compressor housings and wheels.

It is more complicated than a simple written analysis.
 

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Well, MIYAPLAYA knows turbo's for sure "edit after reading ^^"

There is a famous drag race video between a super charged viper and a Single Turbo "T88" supra.

The Viper takes the 60' easy then the Supra would catch up and beat it at the end 10.5s to 10.7s.

Superchargers have no considerable lag like Turbo do, but at the end Turbo would win.
 

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Originally posted by NourZ@Aug 18 2005, 03:28 PM
Well, MIYAPLAYA knows turbo's for sure  "edit after reading ^^"

There is a famous drag race video between a super charged viper and a Single Turbo "T88" supra.

The Viper takes the 60' easy then the Supra would catch up and beat it at the end 10.5s to 10.7s.

Superchargers have no considerable lag like Turbo do, but at the end Turbo would win.
[snapback]147016[/snapback]​

Well it really comes down to a few things, type of Supercharger and what its racing. A roots/screw/Eaton Supercharger is going to deliver massive amounts of torque down low as it build boost almost immediately off the line. The issue with the roots blowers is that as engine speed and screw speed increases the roots blower becomes less and less efficient. This causes the air to heat up drastically and prodcues less power then it did initially. This is inherent of that blower design.
Then there is the Centrifugal Blowers like Vortech and ATI. Essentially its the compressor side of a turbo driven by the pulleys and motors instead of exhaust gas. However their inherent nature is to build boost directly in relation to engine speed with full boost being achieved at redline. These run fairly efficiently but have a longer duration between initial throttle input and full boost....(basically the whole power band).
Then there are turbos. Split into two. Twin small turbos and big single turbos. Twin small turbos will generally speaking spool up relatively quickly and therefore achieve peak pressure earlier in the power band. This usually nets you a large anount of low end but mostly early midrange torque. This car then maintains this to redline. The big single turbo has a bit more lag in the lower parts of the powerband as it takes longer for it to spool up, however when it does achieve peak pressure it delivers a LARGE amount of torque typically in the mid range and maintains it to redline. The primary trade off with the smaller twins and larger single is that usually the smaller twins will start to run less efficient at the upper end of the power band. This causes the air to heat up robbing you of a bit of top end power but not very much. Conversely the larger single turbo runs extremely efficient to redline although it does take a bit longer to achieve peak pressure once it does the turbo efficient all the way to the end.

Now in the case of a Vortech car versus a Greddy car there really just isn't any competition for the Greddy here. Although the Greddy turbos are a bit oversized they still achieve peak pressure VERY early in the powerband. Typically between 3000-3500 As soon as those turbos hit peak pressure they are delivering maximum torque to the wheels. They carry this all the way to redline. The Vortech however will not see this happen to redline. Granted between idle and 3k the Vortech is making power 1-4 PSI (for example) so techinically yes the Vortech should be producing a bit more power initally. However a twin turbo car is not necessarily a light switch either. The turbos will begin to build pressure as early as 2k rpms. Gradually peaking a 1k rpms later. So the real question is would the 1-2 PSI you may be generating from the Vortech earlier be able to get you and keep you ahead of the Greddy car...not a chance. This is for the simple fact that no one leaves the line from idle. Everyone revs up or places the engine under some form of load before beginning a race. In the case of the turbo car this is going to help build pressure as the turbos are exhaust driven and even though vehicle or engine speed may be low if the car is under load the exhaust gas temps and velocity will be higher. On the vortech car load will have no effect as the supercharger is strictly based on engine speed and loading a car by brake torqueing, etc does nothing for you. End result Greddy every time...
 

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Originally posted by MIAPLAYA+Aug 18 2005, 02:54 PM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-NourZ
@Aug 18 2005, 03:28 PM
Well, MIYAPLAYA knows turbo's for sure "edit after reading ^^"

There is a famous drag race video between a super charged viper and a Single Turbo "T88" supra.

The Viper takes the 60' easy then the Supra would catch up and beat it at the end 10.5s to 10.7s.

Superchargers have no considerable lag like Turbo do, but at the end Turbo would win.
[snapback]147016[/snapback]​

Well it really comes down to a few things, type of Supercharger and what its racing. A roots/screw/Eaton Supercharger is going to deliver massive amounts of torque down low as it build boost almost immediately off the line. The issue with the roots blowers is that as engine speed and screw speed increases the roots blower becomes less and less efficient. This causes the air to heat up drastically and prodcues less power then it did initially. This is inherent of that blower design.
Then there is the Centrifugal Blowers like Vortech and ATI. Essentially its the compressor side of a turbo driven by the pulleys and motors instead of exhaust gas. However their inherent nature is to build boost directly in relation to engine speed with full boost being achieved at redline. These run fairly efficiently but have a longer duration between initial throttle input and full boost....(basically the whole power band).
Then there are turbos. Split into two. Twin small turbos and big single turbos. Twin small turbos will generally speaking spool up relatively quickly and therefore achieve peak pressure earlier in the power band. This usually nets you a large anount of low end but mostly early midrange torque. This car then maintains this to redline. The big single turbo has a bit more lag in the lower parts of the powerband as it takes longer for it to spool up, however when it does achieve peak pressure it delivers a LARGE amount of torque typically in the mid range and maintains it to redline. The primary trade off with the smaller twins and larger single is that usually the smaller twins will start to run less efficient at the upper end of the power band. This causes the air to heat up robbing you of a bit of top end power but not very much. Conversely the larger single turbo runs extremely efficient to redline although it does take a bit longer to achieve peak pressure once it does the turbo efficient all the way to the end.

Now in the case of a Vortech car versus a Greddy car there really just isn't any competition for the Greddy here. Although the Greddy turbos are a bit oversized they still achieve peak pressure VERY early in the powerband. Typically between 3000-3500 As soon as those turbos hit peak pressure they are delivering maximum torque to the wheels. They carry this all the way to redline. The Vortech however will not see this happen to redline. Granted between idle and 3k the Vortech is making power 1-4 PSI (for example) so techinically yes the Vortech should be producing a bit more power initally. However a twin turbo car is not necessarily a light switch either. The turbos will begin to build pressure as early as 2k rpms. Gradually peaking a 1k rpms later. So the real question is would the 1-2 PSI you may be generating from the Vortech earlier be able to get you and keep you ahead of the Greddy car...not a chance. This is for the simple fact that no one leaves the line from idle. Everyone revs up or places the engine under some form of load before beginning a race. In the case of the turbo car this is going to help build pressure as the turbos are exhaust driven and even though vehicle or engine speed may be low if the car is under load the exhaust gas temps and velocity will be higher. On the vortech car load will have no effect as the supercharger is strictly based on engine speed and loading a car by brake torqueing, etc does nothing for you. End result Greddy every time...
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And their we have it folks... MRballer350z: 1, MIYAPLAYA: 1, NourZ: 1, All in favor... Turbo = more efficient power.
 

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I dont know if i can share the info I have received, so I will just be general. There is someone working on making a vortech perform like a turbo. The results should be very interesting and hopefully soon. The theory is good and everything has been planned out and looks like it will work. Just waiting on tests.
 

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Originally posted by TOYKILLA@Aug 18 2005, 04:43 PM
I dont know if i can share the info I have received, so I will just be general. There is someone working on making a vortech perform like a turbo. The results should be very interesting and hopefully soon. The theory is good and everything has been planned out and looks like it will work. Just waiting on tests.
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There are a couple people working on that including myself . BUT...it will never be like a turbo . There is alot of power being robbed from the motor turning that blower . I believe we will be able to get to a higher boost level sooner than before and hold it there . But never be able to deliver the trq down low like a TT or ST set up . Mainly because of the power being robbed turning the blower with a belt
 
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