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Do you believe in a God??


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QUOTE (Sisko99 @ Apr 9 2008, 06:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515354
Ask and ye shall receive....

Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider

The Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC, pronounced like "rick", IPA: /ˈrɪk/) is a heavy-ion collider located at and operated by Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL) in Upton, New York.[2] By using RHIC to collide ions traveling at relativistic speeds, physicists study the primordial form of matter that existed in the universe shortly after the Big Bang,[3] and also the structure of protons.


Large Hadron Collider

When activated, it is theorized that the collider will produce the elusive Higgs boson, the observation of which could confirm the predictions and "missing links" in the Standard Model of physics and could explain how other elementary particles acquire properties such as mass.
#1) How do they KNOW it was how matter existed right after the big bang? What gave them that solid, confident notion?

#2) Theorized. If it's theorized, it doesnt mean its evidence.


I still have no evidence.
 

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QUOTE (art_suckz @ Apr 8 2008, 03:22 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515346
Then he decides he is tired of being alone and wants to create all that we see. In my opinion he has probably had lots of time to consider his creation and its nature of being... he created it so he would understand it.
I have quoted the parts in which you create a god in your own image. Again, why does it have to be "person-like"?
 

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QUOTE (Skeptik @ Apr 8 2008, 03:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515372
I have quoted the parts in which you create a god in your own image. Again, why does it have to be "person-like"?
but what does "in his own image" mean? If a God existed he surely woulndt have a physical body like ours. I imagine in spirit... yet he is perfected. Or perfect from start since being alone how can you sin? unless he had a lazy spell... which would be considered sloth.

I guess at some point being immortal he just all of a sudden realized... "Hey, I can make the Universe." Good thing for us by that time he was enlightened enough not to be mean... oh wait... well for the most part. I could go on about how the Canaanites deserved annihilation.. being child sacrificers and all. But that is another long story and Im really just speculating on God.
 

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QUOTE (F4i Caveman @ Apr 8 2008, 04:15 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515366
No.......My little brother was diagnosed with medulla blastoma(brain tumor, cancer) at the age of 6, if there was a "god", they would not let even one child go through that.
I generally try not to mention personal experiences like that, because it makes me want to throttle every person who responds with 'God is testing your faith.'
That said...
My grandmother is fighting against breast cancer, my youngest aunt needs a kidney transplant every five years or she'll die of renal failure (she probably still won't live past 30), my family has a history of diabetes and heart disease and is how my grandfather died, and my stepmother was diagnosed bipolar after she admitted she'd been cutting herself. That's not half of the medical problems, none of my own, and that's only my father's side of the family.

The only funny part in all of this, is that none of that had any bearing on my conclusion about religion.
 

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QUOTE (art_suckz @ Apr 8 2008, 02:37 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515374
but what does "in his own image" mean? If a God existed he surely woulndt have a physical body like ours. I imagine in spirit... yet he is perfected. Or perfect from start since being alone how can you sin? unless he had a lazy spell... which would be considered sloth.

I guess at some point being immortal he just all of a sudden realized... "Hey, I can make the Universe." Good thing for us by that time he was enlightened enough not to be mean... oh wait... well for the most part. I could go on about how the Canaanites deserved annihilation.. being child sacrificers and all. But that is another long story and Im really just speculating on God.
And that is the $64.00 question! Why are all these rollie whollies men! God, Jesus( I think he was politically motivated person) James, David. Why were there no rollie whollie women back then?
 

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There's a saying that it "rains on the just and the unjust". Nobody understands why such things happen to good people, but they do.

That's in part why I believe, because sometimes I just need something to believe in to help me get threw this life, that often seems like

**** on earth.
 

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QUOTE (F4i Caveman @ Apr 9 2008, 06:15 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515366
No.......My little brother was diagnosed with medulla blastoma(brain tumor, cancer) at the age of 6, if there was a "god", they would not let even one child go through that.
I hope you were being sarcastic, or thats pretty damned unfair of an opinion. I hate it when people expect God to just give everyone a break.

It's sad that people suffer, some die, some at a seemingly unfair age or cause... its life, it's sad. Especially if like a man raped and murdered your 10 year old daughter. God created free will in the universe though, so why would he revoke it just for someone? People expect miracles and its selfish. I know youd think I'm an ******* for saying you won't get such miracles because its selfish, but it really is by definition. I feel sorry for you and your brother, honestly, I would be pissed off too, but wanting a miracle for your family or even if it was you with the cancer is expecting special treatment, and it wont come even with prayer.

Usually you pray for guidance, or for inner strength to help you through tough times, but not for easy-ways out, even if its for someone else's sake.

So if thats the only reason you don't believe in God, that's as kinda messed up as people who quit believing in God because 9/11 happened...
 

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Who was praying? Not me. Who's pissed off? Not me, I'm kicking back with a bottle of pinot, mellow as the day is long. That was 20 years ago, I'm a big boy now, replying to a thread, throwing down my $.02, you can cash it or give back change and wouldn't effect me one bit. You believe in a something larger than life, great, you don't awesome, some do what they have to to get through daily life.....me? I'm gonna live it the best way I know how laughing and partying the entire way, cheers folks, were all worm food, remember that :biggrin:

I'll refer you to a song by Propaghandi, it's called "**** Religion" :thumbsup:
 

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Well, a lot of interesting things have once again been brought to the table. But, after reading all the comments there is only two comparisons being made: God vs science. And, being a scientist myself (I used to be head of a neurophysiology lab doing research) I am well aware of the ins and outs of science and its scrutinies. However, in science, one can NEVER use the word "proves". This will never be accepted in any scientific journals and the community will raise an eyebrow, the whole time laughing at you. So, while the Higgs particle may in theory make sense of the BB, more than likely you will find that it will not "prove" it.

The causation of the universe has been explained numerous times in many ways. Many are now mathematical as opposed to philosophical. I would, however, like to challenge those of you using the argument that since the universe had a beginning and was caused then also God, if exists, must also have a cause. This is misuse of the kalam argument. The first premise of this argument is "whatever BEGINS to exist has a cause", NOT "whatever exists has a cause." There is a difference here, which is if something did not begin to exist then a first cause is not needed. So, anything that is eternal needs not a cause. Any reputable philosopher would not concede that everything needs a cause.

As far as the oscillating universe, which was popular in the '60's, has not really held credibility in quiet some time, as well as steady state, etc. Even Hawkings and Penrose reported that an oscillating universe was impossible by not being able to pass through a singularity to a subsequent state given the laws of general relativity. According to the laws of GR, the universe could not be rebounded prior to hitting the state of the singularity, or beginning state, and thus could not exist. In addition, the universe does not have the density needed to contract, including dark matter, etc. Physics does not support this theory.

I also take into account the fine-tuning of the universe, which some say indicate determinism. Physicists have marveled over the delicate detailings of the universe that are so precise in order for the universe to be hospitable. If the expansion rate was barely faster or slower, or the isotropy was not as smooth or precise, then nothing would be. This is not only miraculous, but also so statistically improbable that scientist, including Hawking, is dumbfounded. In fact, it is more probable to be blindfolded and dropped in the Sahara desert and asked to find a grain of sand painted black within three tries according to staticians.

As far as the the science of the Bible and the Big Bang, you may be surprised to find that they are compatible with one another. By using Earths clocks, we measure a fifteen billion year old age of the universe. However, in time before Adam, things were different due to cosmic radiation from the BB (which was actually an implosion, not and explosion). The cosmic clock today ticks a million million times more slowly than from the inception of time due to stretching of cosmic radiation, thus one minute of cosmic time is equivalent to a million million minutes as we record now on Earth. Thus, the division of the fifteen billion years by a million million reduces those fifteen billion years to six days. If you dont believe me, question Einsteins general theory of relativity. There really is science to the Bible.

However, many other things have not been taken into account. Thats what I meant by God vs science. What about history? Some of you have mentioned that the Bible contains many contradictions, etc, but I ask you "where are they?" The Bible, even when analyzed by liberal scholars, has been the single most accurate book of antiquity. It also contains many non-Christian corroborations, such as Josephus, etc. As far as translations are concerned, I personally believe older is better, as its closer to the original. However, even in translation it has contained 99% accuracy according to scholars, non of which effect doctrine.

Again, this is some stuff that I want to bring to the table. I've not been to this thread for a while, hope people still reads it, lol. Sorry I got so lengthy...I'm bad for that.
 

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^pretty good explanation there.

yes. i believe there is a God. Im not sure which one is it : ALLAH, or Jesus, or whatever. But there is a God.

Chemical reactions, atoms and etc. coulnd not have caused magnificent humans to exist. Even scientists cant figure out how human brains function.

I dont believe in evolution as well. If monkeys really evolved into humans, then why are there still monkeys around. lol

my point is: no matter what, we should try to live a righteous life cuz we never know what happens on the otherside. . . just like they say, better safe than sorry. hehe.
 

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QUOTE (Nerb @ Apr 21 2008, 02:21 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=519903
As far as the the science of the Bible and the Big Bang, you may be surprised to find that they are compatible with one another.... There really is science to the Bible.

I got shot down for saying that, maybe you have enough on the table to stand a better chance than me XD cuz that's what I've believed for a long time
 

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"......"
[attachment=24721:14.jpg]

Present-day monkeys are not the same as what we would have come from. Why?
Because of evolution. Let's not forget that evolution never stops.
You don't believe in evolution? That's just being obstinate. Farmers and animal breeders especially have the truth splayed out before them already. All you have to do is look at agricultural breeds of plants and animals and compare them to their wild counterparts to see the evolutionary impact we've had.
Take a look at cows. They are useless creatures with hardly any way to defend themselves, especially after falling down. They suck at life, but continue to exist in that form because we want milk/beef, and we've killed off most predators that would eat them before we do. Their evolution has ground to a near-halt, because we know what we want from them, and only breed them to exhibit traits that we want.

Not good enough? What about dog breeds?
Do you think toy poodles would exist without us nudging and tickling evolution through controlled breeding?
Those Yorkshire terriers can't take on anything larger than a rabbit. Maybe a medium-sized cat. They wouldn't do too well in the wild, I think. All that being said, they are just products of their environment.
...And we're no different. We're just at the top.


I always see people make the mistake of thinking we're special, or better than animals somehow, and it makes me laugh.
We are just very smart monkeys. Is there actually something wrong with that?
 

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QUOTE (Skeptik @ Apr 8 2008, 10:11 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515204
Well, there actually is evidence of how the universe and people came to be.
Really? I thought that there were only theories. :lol: Since I'm lean a lot more to science than religion, I'd have to say that your statement is a little off.


QUOTE
That leads to the biggest difference between our approaches. In Christianity, the truth is not open for debate. This is the truth, end of story! In science, the truth (theories) are put up for others to dispute and prove wrong. When they are proven wrong, the theory is abandoned.

To me, it seems impossible to find the truth when you are not willing to ever admit you are wrong. That is how faith places shackles on the human mind, and makes seeing the Universe as it really is practically impossible. If evidence right in front of your nose holds the truth, you will not "see" it if it doesn't agree with your religious faith.
Exactly. Ever since I was a kid, I couldn't understand why religion always claimed they knew the truth but never 'proved' it. Now that I'm an adult, I can pinpoint the word to describe the believers: Arrogant.

QUOTE (yoshi @ Apr 8 2008, 11:26 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515249
Edit: just to make sure I didn't make myself unclear: Christianity- blindly determined to prove God created all, no proof

Science- blindly determined to prove the universe came to existence on its own, with no proof either.



We're all humans, we pick a theory and shackle ourselves to them. No one is truly open minded....
:clap:

Open-mindedness? You think?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24226085/

QUOTE (Skeptik @ Apr 8 2008, 02:10 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=515342
I am curious as why all religions like to think of a god that is like them.
See the link above. Hard to believe that even though they 'practice' the same religion, they were overtaken with rage and fought over some (what I consider) petty differences.

It's a racial thing, I guess.
 

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"......"
[attachment=24721:14.jpg]

Present-day monkeys are not the same as what we would have come from. Why?
Because of evolution. Let's not forget that evolution never stops.
You don't believe in evolution? That's just being obstinate.


Well, when one speaks of evolution the usually speak of Darwinian evolution, or Neo-Darwinian evolution, neither of which is much better than theory. Evolution by definition is merely "change over time", I'll grant that to anyone, anyday, without debate at all. In this sense evolution has occurred in biological systems for many many years. I certainly believe that species among themselvse have changed over time, but not from species to species. Thats the difference between macro and micro evolution. But, the basis for Darwinian evolution is that all species came from one ancestor. Firstly, I think that it is an elogant idea. But, scientifically, it has some major holes.

One major problem with this is the principle of irreducible complexity. See, Darwin did not understand the cell at all, and even stated that "if any complex organ existed which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down." Darwin was unaware of the complexity of the cell and how the constituents of the cell dictate the vital necessities of the organism. Irreducible complexity shows clearly how that all the parts of the cell has to work harmoniously in order for the cell to function, and if any of the parts did not perform their specific duty, then the biological processes could not take place. So, the little systems in the cell, i.e., flagellum, mitochondria, etc., if were not present, then the cell could not function in order to replicate, or even function at all. Without these key processes, evolution according to Darwin, is impossible. Its kinda like a mousetrap, without the key parts, the trap would not work properly, even if one of them were missing or did not function.

You couple this with the political agenda of the scientific community and there are other issues as well. As hard as it is to believe, science is actually rather closed minded. Certainly it appears on the surface that scientist do their thing, trying to come to a viable conclusion based on evidence of their experiments, etc. However, when the results do not match what they anticipate, things often are downplayed, etc., or never released. Most scientist WANT to discover other venues that point to something else than a Creator. And, on popular broadcast on TV, etc., you'll hear of the discoveries of things that make it reasonable to believe otherwise. This is the simple bias of science. By definition, it WANTS objectivity. And, there is nothing wrong with this, and I strongly encourage it. However, good science always remains open minded and allows the product of the experiment, when replicated, to be just as significant as those anticipated results. The culture of today, however, does not want to hear about anything in science that leads to possible religious conclusions. By the way, historically science has as many skeletons in the closet as many of you assume religion does. So, don't assume all you read in textbooks are accurate.
 

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The last time I gave religion a try I was told by a crazy old lady "Pat" (my Catholic "Confirmation" teacher at St. Timothy's in AZ.) that Jesus , "was a monkey, and that we had to remember the monkey", or else Jesus i.e. the monkey....."WOULD GET SAD!" Then this girl gets up and tells us that she spent the last two years battling cancer, and she finally had been declared "clear". This girl then went on to say that throughout the whole thing, her dog had been there for her, always cheering her up, being strong and what-not. The dog had just died a few weeks before this current meeting. The girl tells us that it is okay though, because now the dog is in heaven and will be waiting until they can be together again.

What does the crazy old lady tell her?

"Well, I'm sorry, but that just isn't going to happen. Animals don't go to heaven. Only us people."
The girl starts to tear up, and responds, "I can't imagine there being a heaven if my dog wouldn't be there to greet me."

Pat then has the bitchiness in her to say "Well honey, then maybe Catholicism isn't the right religion for you. Better be careful though, because with an attitude like that, God won't be letting you in anyway."
The girl ran out of the room crying, and none of the teachers or Priests did anything to stop the madness occuring.

That was 8 years ago, and I haven't gone to a church for any kind of religious service since. That kind of hypocrisy makes me want to scream at the ignorance many religions seem to breed into their charges.
 

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Pumpkinhead, I can't say I blame you. Thats horrible that someone, anyone, religious or otherwise, would say something so atrocious. Sadly enough, its people like this who keep people from going to church, trying to understand Truths about God, and ultimately being deterred by religion as a whole. If I were to be in the same situation, perhaps I would have gotten just as angry and resentful. I have to say, however, if one wants truth about one's existence, the world, etc., it usually comes from going beyond unfortunate circumstances and evaluating truth as it is. If one chooses not to believe in God, then they should evaluate evidence why the have that belief, just as those who choose to believe. If one says there is no God, but only says that to satisfy their own beliefs without reason, then I feel that the person goes on blind faith, just as many atheist argue about Christians are doing. Many non-believers say, and rightfully so to an extent, that Christians have blind faith, meaning that they are ignorant of any concrete evidence that their God exists. However, without evaluating reasons NOT to believe, the same principle applies for the atheist.

In any case, I think the primary duty as a Christian is to show love toward his fellow man, and tell others about their faith. That doesn't mean force feed them, tell them to give their money to them, tell them how stupid they are if they don't believe, etc., but rather discuss things rationally and openly. I talk to atheist all the time, in fact, some of my closest friends are atheist/agnostic. They each have their own reason for not believing or doubting. But we always have civil conversations. I've also talked to mean atheists, just as I have mean, degrading Christians. Those people are the ones who give both cases a bad name.

In any case, I'm sorry about your unfortunate experience. It appears that these are the experiences shared among non-believers as opposed to those who once did not believe, but came to believe due to the love that Christians should show. Christians do have sustanance for their faith, however. Not all of us go into it blindly.
 
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