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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On the weekend I went to DECA again. Skyline and WRX clubs were having a 'competition' there so at the last minute I signed up for it (for $50) and went as well. This DECA event was a bit more 'serious' in terms of competition and required CAMS license, extingusher (as well as a helmet for some of the events).

The skid-pan, cone-dodgeing exercises did not need a helmet, but we got to use the back track as well and that required the helmet. The track was slowed down a bit by implementing a couple very tight chicanes, one stop-go gate, and also one detour from the main straight. It took around 70sec to complete a lap like this and you just needed 3rd gear in a few pleaces so the speeds were kept bellow 120kph.

The skid-pan exercises were much faster than when we had there last time (and to what I'm used to here). They were run mostly in mid to top 2nd gear and even required 3rd gear briefly on the odd acasion. The skid-pan was left dry and for a couple of the exercises the whole skid-pan was used for the single exercise. At these speeds it was so slippery that the car wanted to slide without too much effort just by the 'appropriate' use of weight transfer. I must say that I'm loving the car with the VDC totaly disconnected and I'm starting to think that some if the understeer that I used to feel in the car was VDC induced. As it is right now, I have no problems with understeer unless my entry speed is just too crazy. I'm sure that my almost-non-legaly worn rears which don't have any grip help with the 'balance', but I could not be happier with the handling of my car ... will ahve to see how it feels on an actual track.

The weather was perfect there yet again, and this time we had only 38 cars there (ie. 1/2 of what the HSV-club had there)!! So you can imagine how much skid-pan/track time we all got. We had 3 to 6 runs at every exercise and there were 7 of them. The afternoon took place only on the skip-pan and it was split in 1/2 with identical courses on each side. These were head-to-head exercises where you don't only go for the time, but also try to beat the other person as you start at the same time. The last exercise like this was a 'knockout' slalom kind of like the one we had last time (where Iggy did really well). Though this one had a different layout where you did not slalom on the way back but instead just went through a chicane. For anyone interested in the layout of the exercises take a look here ftp://61.29.12.138/events.pdf

I made it into the final 8 in the 'knockout' competition and was knocked out by the eventual winner (who just happened to be the winner of the day as well). The winner was a modified '00 STi RA on R-spec tyres with a very good driver (he also runs 12.3sec passes over 400m). All the runs were timed, and the best 2 runs for every exercise were totaled for overal score. He just beat two heavily modified GTRs (on R-spec tyres) for the title of 'overal winner'. There were a fair few very quick GTRs and GTSs, but I came 4th overal. I was by far the highest placed 2WD car as the next highest placed was about 15th. So I did win the 2WD class ... I guess I must be getting good at this ;-) Though, the 3 guys ahead of me were about 2 - 2.5sec quicker then me on every run so it's not like I could remotely challenge them.

Also, I do have some nice footage from the day so take a look. Thanks to Iggy for hosting it all. Please download the files before you view them (ie. right-click and save):

This is me. Notice how easy it was to slide the car ... no handbrakes involved just throttle, steering and weight-transfer:
- 350Z Track, 2nd attempt at 'khana #1 (1.94Mb)
- 350Z Track, 2nd attempt at 'khana #2 (2.60Mb) And a hi-res copy (6.71Mb)
- 350Z Track, 3rd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (1.58Mb)

This is the STi-RA that won the day and had the quickest time (or close to it) practicaly for every exercise. Also notice that he's got the 'smart' diffs in the car as this car was pushing 80% of the power to the rear wheels (and 20% to the fronts):
- STi RA (Blaise), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.28Mb)
- STi RA (Blaise), 2nd attempt at 'khana #2 (2.11Mb)
- STi RA (Blaise), 3rd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (1.88Mb)

Here is a similarly modified STi, but this one has the original diffs and also road-tyres here. This car came 5th overal (ie. right behind me):
- STi (Aaron), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.49Mb)
- STi (Aaron), 2nd attempt at 'khana #2 (2.19Mb)

Here are the rest of the STIs and WRXs:
- STi (gray), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.59Mb)
- STi (gray), 3nd attempt at 'khana #2 (2.09Mb)
- WRX (yellow), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.52Mb)
- WRX (yellow), 2nd attempt at 'khana #2 (2.39Mb)
- WRX (yellow vs blue), 2nd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.39Mb)
- WRX (black), 2nd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.25Mb)
- WRX (black vs gray), 1st attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.47Mb)
- WRX (blue), 1st attempt at 'khana #1 (2.25Mb)
- WRX (silver), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.36Mb)

Here are the two GTRs that were fighting for the overal-winner spot and both came very close. The blue one finsihed 2nd and the white one 3rd overal. They were both on R-spec tyres:
- R33 GTR (white), 2nd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.13Mb)
- R34 GTR (blue), 3rd attempt at 'khana #1 (2.18Mb)

Here is a pretty quick R32 GTS (ie. RWD):
- R32 GTS (silver), 4th attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.18Mb)

Here are couple 200SX/Silvias that were having a great time drifting:
- S13 Silvia (silver), 1st attempt at 'khana #2 (2.81Mb)
- S13 Silvia (white), 1st attempt at 'khana #2 (2.74Mb)
- S14 200SX (red), 1st attempt at 'khana #1 (2.82Mb)
- S14 200SX (red), 2nd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.02Mb)

And finaly here is an XR6 Turbo and FPV F6 Typhoon that were having a ball as well:
- XR6 Turbo (white), 1st attempt at 'khana #2 (2.47Mb)
- XR6 Turbo (white), 2nd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.47Mb)
- FPV F6 Typhoon (silver), 2nd attempt at 'khana #2 (1.99Mb)
- FPV F6 Typhoon (silver vs white XR6-T), 2nd attempt at 'khana #4 (ie. garage) (2.02Mb)
 

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Wow - I had a great time just viewing those clips, so you would have had an absolute blast. Pity your garage link is broken!
Well done on coming 4th overall - very impressive.
 

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are those skyline is the same one as the one we saw in Winton with WRX club?

Btw David you have done absolutely an amazing job out there. Also your car control is amazing.

cheers
yun
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow - I had a great time just viewing those clips, so you would have had an absolute blast.

Yes, I had an absolutely amazing day. I could do that every weekend as the car takes practically no wear & tear. It may look like the car is being pushed pretty hard (which it is), but it's easier on the tyres and pads than when I drive on the road. Also for $50 it's a bargain ... just a shame I have to drive up 2.5 hours to get there.

Pity your garage link is broken!

Fixed now.

Well done on coming 4th overall - very impressive.

Thaks for the compliment. I was a little bit surprised that only 3 cars came ahead of me ... I was expecting at least 6 of them ahead of me as there was some serious machinery (and fair few with R-spec tyres). I had 5sec margin over the next placed car ... that is 5sec totaled 9 timed sessions.

are those skyline is the same one as the one we saw in Winton with WRX club?

Couple of them maybe ... which one looks familiar?

Btw David you have done absolutely an amazing job out there. Also your car control is amazing.

Thanks, practice makes perfect. Though everytime I go out there I learn something new ... it's never ending.
 

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the Blue GT-R34.

I think they came before and the White GT-R33 as well, but without the rear spoiler when in winton. If Lionking remember them ;)

they been racing on the winton track i remember and GT-R34 shoot out the field, as i suspect the brake is faded i think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the Blue GT-R34.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that he was there as he is a also member of the WRX-club. Not sure about the white one though ... could have been there but I can't remember it. The one that was at DECA (and you see in the clips) was brought in on a trailor and had a roll-cage in the car, if that helps.
 

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Congrats David, very impressive results keep up the good work, I wish work would allow me more time to get to more of these events and allow me to improve my driving skills which are very sad I mite add!

Cheers :cheers:
 

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David - a few questions for you if you don't mind indulging me.

WRT Khana #1, did you use the handbrake at all? Looking at the video, it looks like you simply poweroversteer in 1st gear around cone 1?

Also, I notice that you use first gear a lot in Khana #1 and when I compare your driving with that of the blue R34 for the same course, the R34 uses 2nd gear most of the time. Amazingly, the R34 was a good 4 sec faster than you around this short course and he didn't need to wring every last rev out of the motor (yes I acknowledge that he was on R tyres and awd and was propably highly modified making great power at mid rpms). Did you try this excercise utilising more of 2nd gear, namely around cones 3, 4 and 5 and if so what was the result?

Downloaded you garage run too - great come from behind win. :shiftdrive:
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
WRT Khana #1, did you use the handbrake at all? Looking at the video, it looks like you simply poweroversteer in 1st gear around cone 1?

Nope, I never used the handbrake in any of the runs. I don't think you could use it in the 350Z even if you wanted as it either is disengaged at any resasonable speed, or just does not have enough power to do anything. Try lifting it up next time you're driving at 60kph and see if you notice any effect.

So, you're right, I used the throttle to power oversteer it around all the tight runs (ie. cone 1 in 'khana #1).

Also, I notice that you use first gear a lot in Khana #1 and when I compare your driving with that of the blue R34 for the same course, the R34 uses 2nd gear most of the time.

I think I was in 1st around 2nd cone and then in 2nd around the 2nd cone. Then back to 1st for the 3rd and in 1st around cones 4 and 5 but to 2nd for cone 6 and back to 1st for come 7 all the way to the garage.

Amazingly, the R34 was a good 4 sec faster than you around this short course and he didn't need to wring every last rev out of the motor (yes I acknowledge that he was on R tyres and awd and was propably highly modified making great power at mid rpms).

Yeah, the blue R34 was 2sec quicker than me on the 1st run, and 3.6sec quicker on the 2nd. I'm sure some of it is due to the R-spec tyres, but I'd give more credit to the amount of power that that car had, and 4WD as it could actually put the power down (unlike me with a lot less of it).

Also as you're thinking, I could have probably gone quicker in if I used 2nd gear more, as looking at the times is shows that on the 'khana #2 I was only 1 - 2sec slower on my runs. That's probably because I spent a lot more time in 2nd there.

Did you try this excercise utilising more of 2nd gear, namely around cones 3, 4 and 5 and if so what was the result?

I kept on going back to 1st in fear that I would not be able to oversteer the car around the tight cones in higher gear. Though, by the end of the day I was sure that I could, but by then we were doing the 'head to head' exercises so I could not try the 'knaha #1 in 2nd around all but the 1st and 2nd last cones. It's a shame because I'm sure I'd be quicker as long as I could still pivot the car under power as I'd be wheelspining a lot less.

Also my changing of gears had to cost me time. Things you learn and next time I'm there, on an 'open' layout course like that, I'll keep it in 2nd and see if it's hampering my spin-turns. I don't think it will, and I'm sure it'll be quicker.

Downloaded you garage run too - great come from behind win.

Thanks, somehow I could brake a lot later than most other cars there and I'd get a lot of them on the run back. I was not that great at reversing out of the 'garage' and I always lost a lot of time there. Some people perfected the 'knight rider style' reverse flick-turns and that looked like it was saving them seconds. I'll have to try and do it as well next time I'm there.

ps. Here are more clips from the day taken by someone else ... couple of them have me in the 'other' lane. Also you get to see the 'knockout slalom' runs that took place towards the end of the day:

http://media.harderstuff.net/pete/
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi Duncan,
The link you provided does not seem to be working ... can you fix it?
 

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I kept on going back to 1st in fear that I would not be able to oversteer the car around the tight cones in higher gear. Though, by the end of the day I was sure that I could, but by then we were doing the 'head to head' exercises so I could not try the 'knaha #1 in 2nd around all but the 1st and 2nd last cones. It's a shame because I'm sure I'd be quicker as long as I could still pivot the car under power as I'd be wheelspining a lot less.

You should be able to induce oversteer around a cone in 2nd gear by upseting the balance of the car. That is, drive flat towards the cone, bake hard to throw the weight of the car forwards and turn the steering wheel sharply. This manouver will the the rear of the car step out around the cone and as for the 1st gear turns, you will need to correct with some opposite lock to aim towards the next cone. I don't know if it would have been any faster that your bets run in khana #1, but worth a try next time.

Also as you're thinking, I could have probably gone quicker in if I used 2nd gear more, as looking at the times is shows that on the 'khana #2 I was only 1 - 2sec slower on my runs. That's probably because I spent a lot more time in 2nd there.


You were in 2nd gear mostly in khana#2 because you had to be as the layout of the course was nowhere near as tight as in khana#1. So in khana#2 the Z was in the right part of the rev range to produce quick times.
Khana#1 seemed a little too tight for 2nd gear in the Z and a little too open for 1st gear as you were banging against the rev limiter on the odd occasion. Perhaps you just needed that extra 500rpms that you've always wanted, for the best results in khana#1.

Thanks for the additional links - I'll get to them a little later.

Duncan - thanks also for the link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
David - the links on this site do not work???

I don't understand why they wouldn't. I have just tried them myself and they worked. Also just yesterday I downloaded all those files. Maybe try again as it's not a very quick server and might have been a bit overloaded when you tried?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You should be able to induce oversteer around a cone in 2nd gear by upseting the balance of the car.

I think that just putting your foot down in 2nd gear should have been enough once I had some lock on the front wheels. It's really slippery there and I should have not worried about being in 1st so much.

Also the car is easier to balance in the lower gears as you have a lot more control over the weight transfer, but that still shouldn't have stopped me ... next time.

That is, drive flat towards the cone, bake hard to throw the weight of the car forwards and turn the steering wheel sharply. This manouver will the rear of the car step out around the cone and as for the 1st gear turns, you will need to correct with some opposite lock to aim towards the next cone.

One thing that I know you don't want to do around these 'tight' cones is to overshoot the cone. If you do so it might feel like you're carrying a lot of speed, but you will need to cover a lot of groud just to come back to the cone and that looses even more time then not being able to steer from the back. Idea is to pivot right around the cone and hence make the distance traveled as short as possible.

Not that it's not possible with what you're suggesting, but it would make it harder to be accurate ... I'm probably not good enough to be able to pull that off consistantly. Need more practice.

I don't know if it would have been any faster that your bets run in khana #1, but worth a try next time

I think I would. As it is I spent a lot of time wheel-spinning in 1st, and that is while trying to moderate the throttle. Fun as may have been, it was not the quickest/best way to get power to the ground.

Perhaps you just needed that extra 500rpms that you've always wanted, for the best results in khana#1.

Oh yeah, I could always use those extra revs. One day I might do something about it.
 
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