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QUOTE (DogZilla @ Jul 25 2008, 12:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547379
I think abortions should be legally performed up until the age of 40. Some people....possibly 75-80.

I just like having options.

The image of people in their 80's gettin busy :lmfao: a couple of raisins rollin in the sheets.
 

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QUOTE (JimZ350 @ Jul 25 2008, 02:09 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547362
Hot debate topic....will never find a neutral ground. When abortion became legal it became cemented into our society and will most likely never go away. From my position of Christian faith I choose life.....however, also from my position of faith, I know that God has given the world He created choice. We have a choice to accept God or deny Him. We have the choice to work and be productive or to leach off of the system. We have the choice to be gay, straight, bi.....what-ever. My point? It's legal and continues to be legal through the voting of the masses. I'll sign the petition....I believe in life but I won't bash on anybody that chooses otherwise. I am proud that you have the balls to stand for what you believe in.....too many people hide behind someone else and let them take the heat :cheers:
yea i'm very passive and hear both sides but when it comes to something i really believe i'm very liberal about it

QUOTE (overbybr @ Jul 25 2008, 02:30 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547365
What if you're wrong though? What if the 'extreme' of murder is actually the reality? What if the human senses are developed much earlier than modern science can detect? What if that little embryo/fetus is not just an organism, but life? If the extreme is actually the reality, then there's a lot for people to answer for. If you're going to err, err on the side of caution.
well we will never know but that's the extreme thing about life though...when we eat baby animals and blah blah blah we have no idea what their brains are capable of...i just think that the people that go out and not only try to force people into believing thing but trick them by saying misleading things is just plain ignorant...i'll completely agree that this country is based upon choices...if we were to tell people this is how things are and if you don't like it get the **** outta dodge would basically make this country communist...now there is some things in the country that have be be laid out a certain way but to tell people that they have no choice but to have the baby leads to WAY to many IFs...we have no idea how each and every case would pan out whether they give the kid up for adoption, leading us to pay more into medicare, raising a kid terribly and having a generation of f*cked up kids because you can't support it, which will also raise medicare taxing, also leads to the possibility of having many more dumpster babies and physco parents who murder their own....this is why the whole choice thing works for us and is the beauty of it

i'm not gonna say that the people who wanna ban it are wrong, but i think they need to sit back and think of all the other what ifs that will emerge from it
 

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QUOTE (Z you later @ Jul 25 2008, 09:57 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547428
we have no idea how each and every case would pan out whether they give the kid up for adoption, leading us to pay more into medicare, raising a kid terribly and having a generation of f*cked up kids because you can't support it, which will also raise medicare taxing, also leads to the possibility of having many more dumpster babies and physco parents who murder their own....this is why the whole choice thing works for us and is the beauty of it
So you're advocating killing off f'ed up kids and psycho parents? What about taking responsibility and investing in the lives of those kids and those parents so that they develop into good people? What the whole idea of abortion (w/ the hazy area of save the mother or child and raped women) boils down to is people wanting to choose to not accept a level of responsibility. Babies are one of the three results of sex (pleasure and intimacy w/ your partner being the other two), but if the birth control we're using doesn't work, people ultimately want to be able to choose to stop the pregnancy before the term. They want to stop it so they don't have to deal w/ the responsibility of raising a child. Call it whatever you want, but it's just a way out of responsibility. As Jim said, it's already a law and people are going to choose to use it, but that doesn't make it right.
 

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QUOTE (overbybr @ Jul 26 2008, 11:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547474
So you're advocating killing off f'ed up kids and psycho parents? What about taking responsibility and investing in the lives of those kids and those parents so that they develop into good people? What the whole idea of abortion (w/ the hazy area of save the mother or child and raped women) boils down to is people wanting to choose to not accept a level of responsibility. Babies are one of the three results of sex (pleasure and intimacy w/ your partner being the other two), but if the birth control we're using doesn't work, people ultimately want to be able to choose to stop the pregnancy before the term. They want to stop it so they don't have to deal w/ the responsibility of raising a child. Call it whatever you want, but it's just a way out of responsibility. As Jim said, it's already a law and people are going to choose to use it, but that doesn't make it right.
Well now I'm going to have to say something. I believe that I am the ONLY woman who has commented on this, you are all MALES. Those of you who say women don't have the right to choose, how bout I take away YOUR rights as a man to CHOOSE what you do with your life and your body. How would that feel to you???

OVERBYBR: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...I have to disagree on all levels with you. If two people are practicing some form of birth control, right there they ARE being responsible and they DO NOT want children, that is why they are using birth control. THAT is being responsible.

QUOTE
They want to stop it so they don't have to deal w/ the responsibility of raising a child
You are dammed right. It's their decision--NOT yours. They used birth control for a REASON!~ TO NOT GET PREGNANT. What's wrong with that?

You are aware that all forms of birth control have some chance of failing correct? So if they are using birth control, have no desire to have children, get pregnant despite using contraception, that they should be FORCED to have the child? A woman should have NO choice in this matter? :rolleyes: If she has some congenital disease that she does not want to pass onto a child, she should just have the baby anyway. If a woman would be at a severe health risk by carrying a child, she should just go ahead and be pregnant anyways? If someone has a mental illness they should Oh, just have the kid? How bout 12 year old girls who have no clue really what they are doing, go and have sex, they should be forced to have the child?

Wow.

So because all forms of contraceptive have a small failure rate then the only way to truly be 100% sure that you won't have kids is to be abstinent? The people in the US that don't want kids should just NOT HAVE SEX???!!!! Come on......

It's the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA where we HAVE CHOICES. Just b/c you don't agree w/ it doesn't mean that it's WRONG. It may be wrong in your eyes, according to your religion or whatever. Doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. That is the beauty of this country, we are all different and all have different views of religion, some don't even believe in religion at all. BUT we have to honor everyone's differences as being just that. You cannot force your views on someone that doesn't believe in them. Just because you believe in a, b or c doesn't mean that EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE THOSE SAME VIEWS. I don't try to tell you how to live or what to believe in, please don't tell me what to do or what to believe in.....
 

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This is a woman's issue, not a man issue! Let the women decide and fight it out! A male has no business giving his opinion or ideas on this subject!
 

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QUOTE (jinxxycat @ Jul 26 2008, 12:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547502
Well now I'm going to have to say something. I believe that I am the ONLY woman who has commented on this, you are all MALES. Those of you who say women don't have the right to choose, how bout I take away YOUR rights as a man to CHOOSE what you do with your life and your body. How would that feel to you???

OVERBYBR: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...I have to disagree on all levels with you. If two people are practicing some form of birth control, right there they ARE being responsible and they DO NOT want children, that is why they are using birth control. THAT is being responsible.

You are dammed right. It's their decision--NOT yours. They used birth control for a REASON!~ TO NOT GET PREGNANT. What's wrong with that?

You are aware that all forms of birth control have some chance of failing correct? So if they are using birth control, have no desire to have children, get pregnant despite using contraception, that they should be FORCED to have the child? A woman should have NO choice in this matter? :rolleyes: If she has some congenital disease that she does not want to pass onto a child, she should just have the baby anyway. If a woman would be at a severe health risk by carrying a child, she should just go ahead and be pregnant anyways? If someone has a mental illness they should Oh, just have the kid? How bout 12 year old girls who have no clue really what they are doing, go and have sex, they should be forced to have the child?

Wow.

So because all forms of contraceptive have a small failure rate then the only way to truly be 100% sure that you won't have kids is to be abstinent? The people in the US that don't want kids should just NOT HAVE SEX???!!!! Come on......

It's the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA where we HAVE CHOICES. Just b/c you don't agree w/ it doesn't mean that it's WRONG. It may be wrong in your eyes, according to your religion or whatever. Doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. That is the beauty of this country, we are all different and all have different views of religion, some don't even believe in religion at all. BUT we have to honor everyone's differences as being just that. You cannot force your views on someone that doesn't believe in them. Just because you believe in a, b or c doesn't mean that EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE THOSE SAME VIEWS. I don't try to tell you how to live or what to believe in, please don't tell me what to do or what to believe in.....
Sister Girl, Testify!


QUOTE (dad @ Jul 26 2008, 02:46 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547512
This is a woman's issue, not a man issue! Let the women decide and fight it out! A male has no business giving his opinion or ideas on this subject!
**** straight.
 

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QUOTE (DogZilla @ Jul 25 2008, 02:13 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547379
I think abortions should be legally performed up until the age of 40. Some people....possibly 75-80.

I just like having options.

QUOTE (JimZ350 @ Jul 25 2008, 02:48 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547389
The image of people in their 80's gettin busy :lmfao: a couple of raisins rollin in the sheets.

Jim, I believe he was referencing having abortions on living people, which I too believe should be allowed.
 

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QUOTE (overbybr @ Jul 26 2008, 10:38 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547474
So you're advocating killing off f'ed up kids and psycho parents? What about taking responsibility and investing in the lives of those kids and those parents so that they develop into good people? What the whole idea of abortion (w/ the hazy area of save the mother or child and raped women) boils down to is people wanting to choose to not accept a level of responsibility. Babies are one of the three results of sex (pleasure and intimacy w/ your partner being the other two), but if the birth control we're using doesn't work, people ultimately want to be able to choose to stop the pregnancy before the term. They want to stop it so they don't have to deal w/ the responsibility of raising a child. Call it whatever you want, but it's just a way out of responsibility. As Jim said, it's already a law and people are going to choose to use it, but that doesn't make it right.
now i'm curious to where i actually said that cause i know i didn't...you take america's killed children by parents who are mentally insane by either drowning their kids or throwing them in the dumpster and muliply that by these "forced upon" babie, you don't think those numbers will raise without having a choice?

QUOTE (jinxxycat @ Jul 26 2008, 02:25 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547502
Well now I'm going to have to say something. I believe that I am the ONLY woman who has commented on this, you are all MALES. Those of you who say women don't have the right to choose, how bout I take away YOUR rights as a man to CHOOSE what you do with your life and your body. How would that feel to you???

OVERBYBR: WITH ALL DUE RESPECT...I have to disagree on all levels with you. If two people are practicing some form of birth control, right there they ARE being responsible and they DO NOT want children, that is why they are using birth control. THAT is being responsible.

You are dammed right. It's their decision--NOT yours. They used birth control for a REASON!~ TO NOT GET PREGNANT. What's wrong with that?

You are aware that all forms of birth control have some chance of failing correct? So if they are using birth control, have no desire to have children, get pregnant despite using contraception, that they should be FORCED to have the child? A woman should have NO choice in this matter? :rolleyes: If she has some congenital disease that she does not want to pass onto a child, she should just have the baby anyway. If a woman would be at a severe health risk by carrying a child, she should just go ahead and be pregnant anyways? If someone has a mental illness they should Oh, just have the kid? How bout 12 year old girls who have no clue really what they are doing, go and have sex, they should be forced to have the child?

Wow.

So because all forms of contraceptive have a small failure rate then the only way to truly be 100% sure that you won't have kids is to be abstinent? The people in the US that don't want kids should just NOT HAVE SEX???!!!! Come on......

It's the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA where we HAVE CHOICES. Just b/c you don't agree w/ it doesn't mean that it's WRONG. It may be wrong in your eyes, according to your religion or whatever. Doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. That is the beauty of this country, we are all different and all have different views of religion, some don't even believe in religion at all. BUT we have to honor everyone's differences as being just that. You cannot force your views on someone that doesn't believe in them. Just because you believe in a, b or c doesn't mean that EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE THOSE SAME VIEWS. I don't try to tell you how to live or what to believe in, please don't tell me what to do or what to believe in.....
+1 :yourock:

QUOTE (Toykilla @ Jul 27 2008, 10:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547599
Jim, I believe he was referencing having abortions on living people, which I too believe should be allowed.
:rolf2: especially the ones that drive 40 in the fast lane and don't budge!
 

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QUOTE (Toykilla @ Jul 27 2008, 06:34 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547599
Jim, I believe he was referencing having abortions on living people, which I too believe should be allowed.
We can't get rid of the raisin crowd...they fall apart and allow me to make a living and buy more go fast parts for the Z. :irock:
 

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QUOTE (westpak @ Jul 24 2008, 09:12 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547150
BS women should be allowed to do what they want with their bodies and not be dictated by government what to do

what happened to keeping religion and government separate, when they start paying taxes then they can have a say
:werd:

Women rock. Why else do we talk about them all the time? :biggrin:

QUOTE (Richard 350z @ Jul 24 2008, 11:31 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547173
Let's protect unborn fetuses but shoot doctors who perform abortions and bomb their clinics. Great movement you got goin' there.
:lol:

QUOTE (buzzardmountain @ Jul 24 2008, 07:43 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547262
Abortion is used as birth control these days.........no one wants to accept responsibility for their actions.

This was just in the news a couple of days ago.....some woman who hosts "The View"...



http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/07/sherr...had_an_unc.html


I'm not coming from a bible thumping/religious point of view either.
Wow, that just makes me want to have her neutered.

I wanted to add that there are a lot of women out there that shouldn't even be allowed to procreate, but that might open up a can of worms in here. Sadly, no one is willing to go there and throw that out as an option. Alas, no one is willing to pay for foster children and orphans either. So there's the conundrum, the paradox, the bind, whatever you want to call it. No matter what the govt decides, it's going to cost money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think our govt is broke and needs some welfare from the international tit.

I know I can't afford it.

QUOTE (yoshi @ Jul 25 2008, 04:53 AM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547302
I am completely on the fence which I hate, I hate being on fences x_x but this one I cant avoid
Especially if they're sharp and pointy.

QUOTE (jinxxycat @ Jul 25 2008, 12:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547366
All I have to say on the matter is that people deserve a CHOICE. This is the good old US of A correct?
Yep. Freedom to choose as an individual as long as it doesn't harm the masses.
 

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QUOTE (SmoothZ @ Jul 28 2008, 03:18 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547833
I wanted to add that there are a lot of women out there that shouldn't even be allowed to procreate, but that might open up a can of worms in here. Sadly, no one is willing to go there and throw that out as an option. Alas, no one is willing to pay for foster children and orphans either. So there's the conundrum, the paradox, the bind, whatever you want to call it. No matter what the govt decides, it's going to cost money. I don't know about the rest of you, but I think our govt is broke and needs some welfare from the international tit.
From my experience.......I was totally blinded to the fact that many couples indeed have trouble becoming pregnant. Whether it's low sperm count in the man or something ovarian related in the woman. I was totally oblivious to this until my wife and I became pregnant with our first child and you start having baby talk with other couples. Many, many couples have trouble with pregnancies, miscarriages.....

We have very good friends who've spent in excess of $70G's.........30 of that was going through the legal smeagal adoption process......only for the pregnant woman to string them along the entire process. My friends went to all her medical appointments, blackmailed them into paying her rent, car payment, etc......only for her to change her mind and "sale" the baby to another couple with two weeks left to go in the pregnancy. They are currently in litigation.

My point is, there are responsible couples who would provide a great home for all these unwanted aborted babies.....because the parents* sure don't want to take responsibility.
 

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QUOTE (buzzardmountain @ Jul 28 2008, 05:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547840
From my experience.......I was totally blinded to the fact that many couples indeed have trouble becoming pregnant. Whether it's low sperm count in the man or something ovarian related in the woman. I was totally oblivious to this until my wife and I became pregnant with our first child and you start having baby talk with other couples. Many, many couples have trouble with pregnancies, miscarriages.....

We have very good friends who've spent in excess of $70G's.........30 of that was going through the legal smeagal adoption process......only for the pregnant woman to string them along the entire process. My friends went to all her medical appointments, blackmailed them into paying her rent, car payment, etc......only for her to change her mind and "sale" the baby to another couple with two weeks left to go in the pregnancy. They are currently in litigation.

My point is, there are responsible couples who would provide a great home for all these unwanted aborted babies.....because the parents* sure don't want to take responsibility.
This right here is the problem. It is so hard for people to adopt children from this country who need a family. I swear it is easier to adopt some 3rd world orphan then it is to adopt an American child. I understand that you can't just give the responsibility of a child out to anyone, but there are a LOT of people who are responsible to adopt a child.
 

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People need to be tested and licensed before having kids. Then, if they qualify to be parents, they need to wait 1-2 year afterwards to become pregnant. And yes, I'm 100% serious.


When it comes to babies, just because you can.....doesn't mean you should.
 

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QUOTE (buzzardmountain @ Jul 28 2008, 02:38 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547840
My point is, there are responsible couples who would provide a great home for all these unwanted aborted babies.....because the parents* sure don't want to take responsibility.
And what do you suggest that would make the entire process more user friendly and safe for the babies? I see a lot of Americans that go abroad to adopt because it's cheaper and more permanent. They don't get jerked around as much as they do in this country. I wonder who we can blame for those issues? Politicians, perhaps? I don't care what party spearheads it, as long as someone makes it a crime to string along responsible would-be parents. To me, those surrogates are committing fraud and theft by deception.

There's also the flip side to every story. I'm sure I could spend some time listing all the X factors involved with abortions and/or why some people are in a predicament and either have to do it or give up the baby to someone. We can all argue until we're blue in the face. The point is that everyone has their personal belief(s) in the concept of pro-choice or pro-life, and no one else should tell that individual what to do or how to think or act. It's a VERY PERSONAL life experience, and at the most there should be, at minimum, some public option for the expecting mother to get some counseling and help on making an informed decision.
 

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QUOTE (SmoothZ @ Jul 28 2008, 08:55 PM) index.php?act=findpost&pid=547878
And what do you suggest that would make the entire process more user friendly and safe for the babies?
Anything is safer than death....... :dunno:

QUOTE
I see a lot of Americans that go abroad to adopt because it's cheaper and more permanent. They don't get jerked around as much as they do in this country. I wonder who we can blame for those issues? Politicians, perhaps? I don't care what party spearheads it, as long as someone makes it a crime to string along responsible would-be parents. To me, those surrogates are committing fraud and theft by deception.
Politicians, parents*, etc....... The laws are very unfriendly to adoption families. Also, there just aren't as many children available like there are in other countries......combine that with red tape from the federal level, state level, adoption agency level, crappy parents*, etc......as crazy as it sounds, it's just easier and more options for adopting families to travel tens of thousand miles away rather than do the same process here in the states.


QUOTE
There's also the flip side to every story. I'm sure I could spend some time listing all the X factors involved with abortions and/or why some people are in a predicament and either have to do it or give up the baby to someone. We can all argue until we're blue in the face. The point is that everyone has their personal belief(s) in the concept of pro-choice or pro-life, and no one else should tell that individual what to do or how to think or act. It's a VERY PERSONAL life experience, and at the most there should be, at minimum, some public option for the expecting mother to get some counseling and help on making an informed decision.
It just bothers me that the examples always given are something to the effect of someone being raped and becoming impregnated, life threatening to the mother, etc.......when the real reason for most abortions is that little Johnny and little Suzy didn't use birth control for whatever reason, and abortion becomes their birth control. That's how they take responsibility.

To me, as soon as you say........I think every woman should have the right to choose*, but, I don't believe in late term abortions. As soon as you qualify that statement with an example, so you can ride the fence, you blow your whole arguement. If you think it's ok to abort a child at 10 weeks, the same should be so for 8 months and 29 days.........
 
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