[davidm]

Yesterday I picked up a copy of the EVO mag as it has a comparision between 350Z Track, a 5.7L Monaro CV8, RX8, 3.2L Audi TT BMW 330 and Alfa GT. It's a pretty comprehensive comparo and gathers a fair bit of data on all the cars on the same day/place. They even took the cars to the EVO test track and published the lap-times. Besides that it's a nice read so pick it up when you get the change.

For people interested in the results, the 350Z did very well, even though the standing-start acceleration numbers are not that great. It looks like they could not get the car (or any other for that matter) off the line well and all cars show a very poor 0-40mph time ... they are all 0.5 - 1sec off by 40hph. Still, the 350Z was the quickest with the Monaro being very close 2nd. The Alfa GT did very well in standing start as well as rolling-start acceleration tests, and by any means is not disgraced. Interestingly the RX8 did not do well at all, especialy over 60mph ... by 100mph (ie. 160kph) it was the slowest car there by a good margin. They clocked it at somehting like 19sec to 160kph, which is very slow ... not sure why so slow as 16 - 17sec to 160kph is pretty normal for the RX8.

In terms of lap-times the 350Z won again by a good margin from most of the cars but the RX8. The RX8 was only about 0.7sec behind which was surprisingly quick considering that it did not accelerate that well over 60mph.

ps. They said that the brakes on the 350Z dissapeared after 5 laps. Surprised me, as that's the 1st time I've heard anyone say that and the 350Z has seen a few track tests.

 

[db350z]

Maybe RX8 is bad on Acceleration but the agility of the car on cornering is quicker than the Z

 

[zuffy]

Something tells me that they weren't driving a track model!

From memory Nathan uses the stock Brembo brakes and just has different oil and pads. Still wouldn't account for fade at 5 laps.

 

[davidm]

Maybe RX8 is bad on Acceleration but the agility of the car on cornering is quicker than the Z

Maybe that is the case, but it surprised me as from my (limited) experience with RX8s, the 350Z is more agile, and has more grip. RX8 is more nimbler even though it has a lot more roll.

Still, RX8 shouldn't be that far off on acceleration ... these were by far the slowest numebrs that I've seen for the car. As I mentioned before, in this article at 100kph and above, the RX8 was seriously lagging.

Also, another thing of interest is that the people at EVO did not 'enjoy' driving the RX8 that much ... they thought it felt 'detached'. On the other hand they 'enjoyed' driving the 350Z very much.

Something tells me that they weren't driving a track model!

That's the thing - it is the track model. In all the pictures they have the Track model, and even in the specs it's listed as the track-model.

From memory Nathan uses the stock Brembo brakes and just has different oil and pads. Still wouldn't account for fade at 5 laps.

I use the standards Brembos with different pads/fluid, and have had no problems so far. I'd pressume that the car in the test would be with the factory pads and fluid, but even with that I'm surprised that they went off. I'd pressume that the Brembo pads can handle track 'sprints' like this ... they seem to have done just fine in all the other track-tests around.

I'll have to re-read it again to see exactly what they say about the brakes.

 

[Nuff]

I think the stock fluid is DOT3 with very low boiling point. That could have been the problem.

Also I've a Best Mottoring video with a RX8 and 350z (both modified), the RX8 kills 350z around corners and 350z kills RX8 in acceleration. RX8 has won the race, but 350z had the fastest laptime, I think it had a lot to do with the driver skill that the RX8 won.

If any one is willing to host that video, let me know. It's 140MB in size.

 

[frosty]

Rx8 has a much more compliant suspension tha the Z - bears out somewhat what I said about the z's need for a bit of work on same.

FRATZZLEY

 

[mchapman]

I personally would pick the 350z's suspension over the RX8's everytime.

Regarding the brakes, Im sure the Brembos arent up for question here, it could only be the OE fluid and pads. Did they mention the other cars brakes? All would be using similar fluid and pads I would imagine, perhaps the Zed was a bit of a target with it being labeled the 'Track' model.

 

[davidm]

I personally would pick the 350z's suspension over the RX8's everytime.

Likewise. IMHO, the RX8 is setup-up like a sports-sedan, and not a sports car. ie. soft and ultimately not as sharp and rewarding. Still, the RX8 seems really well balanced ... just too soft for my liking and track-work.

Did they mention the other cars brakes?

All the other cars were fine in this respect .... it was just the Zed. The comment about the Zed was "... its brakes completely dissapeared after 5 laps." ... it does not say anything else. I'm still surprised as I've read plenty of track tests where there was no sign/mention of brake problems. Though, who knows what shape were the brakes before EVO got the car ... usually the manufacturers recondition thebrakes between every test, and maybe this time they forgot?

ps. Here's some of the data from the test:

350Z Track:
- 0-40mph (64kph) = 3.7sec
- 0-60mph (96kph) = 6.1sec
- 0-100mph (160kph) = 14.8sec
- 0-120mph (193kph) = 21.9sec
- 1/4mile = 14.7sec @ 99mph (159kph)
- 40-60mph (3rd gear) = 3.5sec
- 40-60mph (5rd gear) = 6.0sec
- 100-0mph = 337ft @ 4.50sec

Monaro CV8:
- 0-40mph (64kph) = 3.8sec
- 0-60mph (96kph) = 6.5sec
- 0-100mph (160kph) = 15.0sec
- 0-120mph (193kph) = 22.1sec
- 1/4mile = 14.9sec @ 99mph (159kph)
- 40-60mph (3rd gear) = 4.0sec
- 40-60mph (5rd gear) = 7.9sec
- 100-0mph = 323ft @ 4.42sec

RX8:
- 0-40mph (64kph) = 4.0sec
- 0-60mph (96kph) = 7.0sec
- 0-100mph (160kph) = 19.0sec
- 0-120mph (193kph) = 31.1sec
- 1/4mile = 15.5sec @ 92mph (148kph)
- 40-60mph (3rd gear) = 4.4sec
- 40-60mph (5rd gear) = 9.0sec
- 100-0mph = 309ft @ 4.25sec

Alfa GT:
- 0-40mph (64kph) = 4.0sec
- 0-60mph (96kph) = 6.3sec
- 0-100mph (160kph) = 15.5sec
- 0-120mph (193kph) = 23.6sec
- 1/4mile = 15.0sec @ 98mph (158kph)
- 40-60mph (3rd gear) = 3.9sec
- 40-60mph (5rd gear) = 6.9sec
- 100-0mph = 336ft @ 4.53sec

BMW 330Ci SMG:
- 0-40mph (64kph) = 3.5sec
- 0-60mph (96kph) = 6.4sec
- 0-100mph (160kph) = 16.6sec
- 0-120mph (193kph) = 25.4sec
- 1/4mile = 15.0sec @ 99mph (159kph)
- 40-60mph (3rd gear) = 4.5sec
- 40-60mph (5rd gear) = 8.2sec
- 100-0mph = 305ft @ 4.22sec

Laptimes:
- 350Z = 1:32.05
- RX8 = 1:32.70
- 330Ci SMG= 1:34.40
- Crossfire = 1:34.55
- Audi TT DSG = 1:34.85
- Alfa GT = 1:35.20
- Monaro CV8 = 1:35.70

 

[coatsie]

Braking performance is surprising, not only from their comments regarding fade on the track, but also in the 100mph to 0 where the "Z" returns the worst numbers. For example, I'd have thought that with the Brembo's and weight advantage over the Monaro, it would have pulled up quicker.
Perhaps there was a problem.
Will be good to read the article.

cheers
coatsie

 

[Ztrack]

DavidM

I did experience a simular thing at Sandown, in my fist 10 mins session (8 laps) I notice brake fade towards the end of the session, but after they cooled down the following 3 sessions that day they were quite strong. Maybe all the street driving had dulled the pads, go figure.

 

[davidm]

did experience a simular thing at Sandown, in my fist 10 mins session (8 laps) I notice brake fade towards the end of the session, but after they cooled down the following 3 sessions that day they were quite strong. Maybe all the street driving had dulled the pads, go figure.

That's interesting as I've never had the OME pads&fluid on the track. I did it with the S2000 (which was a disaster) and also with the MR2 (which performed flawlesly). I would have pressumed that concidering that OME we have Brembo pads, that they would be able to handle a worout like a few laps around the track. Though, I was not willing to risk it and replaced them straight away ... seems like I did the right thing from what what you say.

Also you might be right about 'dulling the pads' with street driving as I know that even most 'street friendly' pads will not perform at their optimum unless they get pushed hard here and there. Using them softly for a prolonged period of time will glaze both the pads as well as the disks. Sometimes you can 'punch through' the glazing by stressing the brakes/pads by a bit of hard braking, but sometimes machining of the disks/pads is required. It sounds like in your case you were able to 'punch through' the glazzing.

Braking performance is surprising, not only from their comments regarding fade on the track, but also in the 100mph to 0 where the "Z" returns the worst numbers. For example, I'd have thought that with the Brembo's and weight advantage over the Monaro, it would have pulled up quicker. Perhaps there was a problem.

My thinking exactly. In particular in light of the CV8 ... the OME brakes in that are pretty average ... good for one hard/fast stop, good for everyday driving, but not really made for spirited mountain passed, let alone track work.

 

[ky350]

The stopping performance may also have been influenced by the wear on the RE040's. But I am surprised that the big heavy Munro pulled up quicker than the Z. Something doesn't seem right.

 

[ky350]

Forgot to mention that all the performance times seem a little slow.

WRT the Z, I did 14.070s over 1/4 mile with an ET of 161.23km/h, with 1/4 tank of gas. So I would estimate a 14s flat to achieve 160km/h. That's a full 8/10ths faster that EVO got out of the Z. Was the test track damp / at high elevation???

 

[Perth 350z]

David,

Is that the October EVO mag or November - My local newsagent only has September in stock at the moment

 

[davidm]

Was the test track damp / at high elevation???

The article does not mention it beign dry or wet. Though, they were comlaining that they had a hard time getting the cars off the line (ie. all of them). Closest indication is that in the table at the back of the mag where they have the lap-times around their test-circuit and the 350Z is listed with exactly the same lap-time lbut with an "*" next to it - which indicates damp/wet conditions. So, maybe it was wet ... I'll take a closer look at the pics to see if I can spot anything.

Look at the 0-40mph (64kph) times for the cars ... they are all about 1/2 to 1sec off the pace. 350Z can do sub 3.0sec 0-40mph time according to other tests. Even localy they manage high 2s for 0-60kph. If you take 0.7sec all the following increments you can see that it accelerated pretty well, it's just the initial launch which makes the numbers seem slow ... could not have been too wet (ie. to hamper progress once on the move).

So I would estimate a 14s flat to achieve 160km/h.

Yep, spot on ... locally they managed best of 14.04sec to 160kph, while in Germany they managed 13.7sec in one test to 160kph.

Is that the October EVO mag or November - My local newsagent only has September in stock at the moment.

I think it's the October issue (ie. not the air freighted one). I'll check at home, but it has a red Ford GT on the cover and you don't see a reference to the 350Z on the cover ... just that "Alfa GT takes on the competition" in the top right corner.

 

[frosty]

Could settings on the ABS influence stopping distances?

Something's gotta be the matter - tyre size, compound, dive, weight, etc also would have some influence, but I suspect ABS settings.

FRIZZLE

 

[davidm]

Is that the October EVO mag or November - My local newsagent only has September in stock at the moment.

OK, I checked and September issue is it. As I mentioned before, it has a red Ford GT (with white stripes) on the cover.

Could settings on the ABS influence stopping distances?

I'm sure it can, but I don't think ABS would have an effect of "brakes completely dissapeared after 5 laps".