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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 12:46 AM
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don't buy all organic because it is expensive, but I believe in the concept of organic food. Pesticides and fertilizers are bad no matter what. I'd rather have less of it in the world. Just my 2 cents.
Slow down there Dave... food that's labeled "organic" in the store does not mean it was grown without pesticides or fertilizers. I live up the road from an organic corn, soybean, and alfalfa farm and have been awoken a many a morning by a dive bombing crop duster. Trust me, there's a huge gulf of difference between what you and Mrs. Smooth are growing in the garden and what's being sold in the supermarket as organic.

I won't go so far as to play the "snake oil" card like Brent has, but I will say that by and large the American consumer is not getting what they think they are paying for at the grocery store. Unfortunately, for the consumer, there really isn't a lot of independent peer-reviewed scientific data on the subject. What little there is, tends to be too narrow in scope to be informative to the consumer. With most of the other studies being conducted by parties that have a vested economic interest in the outcome.

Yet, there is a definite flavor and qualitative difference between organically grown meat vs standard commercial methods. Again health benefits are debatable. Personally, I would like to see the meat and poultry industry move in this direction. And it has nothing to do with with the flavor or the environment. With the massive (and ever increasing) amounts of unnecessary antibiotics ranchers pump into their livestock, it literally is simply a matter of time before some super bug is created that we can't cure. Sort of like the strains of potent drug resistant staph infections that we are starting to see pop up in major metropolitan area hospitals.

Bottom Line:
Growing organic at home? Yes, by all means.
Buying organic at the store? It's your money...

-Ronin Z


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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 03:36 AM
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^What he said! Okay, maybe I'm a bit of a drama queen!

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 08:27 AM
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Organic here is not TWICE as much in the store. I don't believe that it's snake oil. When feeding my 17 month old child fruits and veggies that still have the skin on, I am not going to be pumping 100+ pesticides into his little body if I can help it. I can't imagine that's safe. Our government has engineered so much stuff that we eat, it's not even funny. Kids are reaching puberty WAY younger than 50 years ago, and you can't tell me it's evolution. I sincerely believe it's all the chemicals (growth hormones, antibiotics, pesticides, poisons) and genetic engineering of our meat and fruits and veggies that's doing this. If I can somehow take SOME of the risk away from my child I am dammed well going to do it. I have done tons of research on this and in no way shape or form do I believe that it's all smoke and mirrors designed by our government. If you look at the health of other less developed countries versus ours you can clearly see that we are doing SOMETHING wrong. Obesity, cancers, diabetes, you name it, I think a lot of it is linked to the food we eat.





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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 08:50 AM
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Trust me, there's a huge gulf of difference between what you and Mrs. Smooth are growing in the garden and what's being sold in the supermarket as organic.

I won't go so far as to play the "snake oil" card like Brent has, but I will say that by and large the American consumer is not getting what they think they are paying for at the grocery store.

Bottom Line:
Growing organic at home? Yes, by all means.
Buying organic at the store? It's your money...

-Ronin Z
I should have explained myself better in my post. I knew about the difference between mass produced veggies compared to what I grow at home. My bad. I know that labeling food at the grocery store as Organic isn't a guarantee that the food is clean from contamination.

I should also say that I make my own soil. Yes, you read that correctly. I got a book on square foot gardening for shits and giggles, and there's a section that tells you what to buy to create 'clean' virgin soil. It's the shiznit.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:02 AM Thread Starter
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Some importers of 'organic' fruits and vegtables have taken on the job of testing for chemical residues themselves.

...from the article in the link.
"The Organic Foods Production Act of 1990 requires that residue tests be conducted periodically on organic produce.
But Marco Brakkee, OTC-USA’s vice president, said in the release that those tests are not performed regularly."

...and these ^ guys are from PA.

http://www.thepacker.com/fruit-veget...122470984.html

I get fresh vegtables at the local farmers market or produce stand. It may or may not be pesticide free but it certainly tastes better than what is stocked in the local Wal Mart or supermarket.

I buy only grass fed beef critters. Alderspring Ranch has really good steaks (Porterhouse, ribeye and filet). TallGrass Beef Company has excellent ground beef.
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 03:13 PM
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I just think that it's horribly naive to think that something is better just because the package says so, the product uses a certain buzzword, and/or it costs more. That's like blindly buying brand name stuff just because it's brand name. It's a waste of money and you get no guarantee that it's any better. If it tastes better to you, that's one thing...

But if you are expecting it to be free from pesticides and chemicals, thats a delusion. The only way that you are going to guarantee that is if you do what Smooth does and grow it yourself.

As far as all of the government conspiracy theory stuff, well...

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 07:59 PM
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I agree with the bulk of the arguments that everybody is making here, but here's the issue at hand. When many people go to the grocery store and buy organic fruits and vegetables, they have this vision that it was all grown all "naturally" with nothing but water and sunshine. And that's simply not the case. Commercially grown organic food is treated with pesticides just like non-organic food. The difference being that the pesticides in question come from "organic sources".

One common class of organic pesticides are spinosyn A and spinosyn D, which are mixed together and sold under trade name Spinosad by Dow Chemicals. It's a short lived neurotoxin, that's good at killing bugs. So where does spinosyn A & D come from? It's the fermentation byproduct from the Saccharopolyspora spinosa bacteria. So where did Dow find this incredible bacteria whose poop kills bugs dead? Well, funny story, this biochemist was on vacation in the Caribbean when he decided to take some soil samples from an old abandoned rum factory. Because, apparently, taking soil samples is something scientists are prone to do while on vacation. Anyway, once he gets back stateside he analyzes his souvenirs. Guess what? He's found a new biologically based pesticide from this completely "natural" source. Let's all just ignore the fact that he just so happened to work for Dow Chemicals. And ignore that the fact that this bacteria had never been seen in the wild before or since. And put aside the fact that Dow had been working for 10 years to genetically modify bacteria to do just what this wonderful "natural" bacteria does. Gimme a break.

And so it goes with a lot of the bulk commercial organic pesticides, many of which have dubious production histories, or have similar environmental impacts as their artificial cousins. To your body, poison is poison. Let's not forget that snake venom is 100% natural.

I guess my point is that many organic enthusiasts don't always know the bigger picture. They hop on the net and read all about all of the benefits of eating organic. Then they might look at a few websites from amateur organic gardeners. They see these wonderful natural growing conditions and think "Wow, that's sure looks healthy! That's it! I'm buying organic from here on out!". All the while thinking that those down home growing methods are being applied to the stuff in the grocery store.

But Jinxxy is right, we all should make an effort to limit our exposure to chemicals whenever we can. Because even though something may be considered "safe" now. It'll be decades before we can measure the cumulative effects.

-RZ


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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:31 PM
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:50 PM
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C'mon Dave, don't hit your head like that...

-RZ


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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:53 PM
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