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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 12:02 PM Thread Starter
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Ok people....I've got 3 questions for our friendly neighborhood Obamaniacs......

* What does Obama stand for? And don't say "hope and change." Those are non-answers.
* Can you tell me two specific policy initiatives Obama has proposed? See if you can get past national health care and higher taxes on the evil rich.
* Name three Obama accomplishments --- and being elected Senator doesn't count .. there are 99 others in office right now who pulled that one off.

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 05:17 AM
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Ok people....I&#39;ve got 3 questions for our friendly neighborhood Obamaniacs......

* What does Obama stand for? And don&#39;t say "hope and change." Those are non-answers.
* Can you tell me two specific policy initiatives Obama has proposed? See if you can get past national health care and higher taxes on the evil rich.
* Name three Obama accomplishments --- and being elected Senator doesn&#39;t count .. there are 99 others in office right now who pulled that one off.
(1) I don&#39;t know (2) I don&#39;t care (3) I&#39;m voting for Obama
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 05:36 AM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 01:40 PM
 
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Ok people....I&#39;ve got 3 questions for our friendly neighborhood Obamaniacs......

* What does Obama stand for? And don&#39;t say "hope and change." Those are non-answers.
* Can you tell me two specific policy initiatives Obama has proposed? See if you can get past national health care and higher taxes on the evil rich.
* Name three Obama accomplishments --- and being elected Senator doesn&#39;t count .. there are 99 others in office right now who pulled that one off.
You can also learn a hell of a lot about the candidates by watching the CNN Debates.

There was a good one on last night, that keeps being replayed by CNN. I&#39;m willlng to bet you can find it, in its entirety online.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 01:51 PM
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Justin, I cannot answer your questions. What I can tell you is I have listened to all the candidates through several debates and interviews. With Obama, I get a sense of someone who would be a good leader and who wants to make decisions that will be good for the country. I may or may not agree with all his views, but I feel confident the decisions he makes will be in the interest of the greater good, not special interest, corporations, or whatever.

I do *not* get this impression from any other candidate (sorry, excluding Ron Paul because he is just too far out of the running at this point)

I do not question Obama&#39;s experience because he has pointed out (and I strongly agree), no one had more experience than Dick Cheney when we entered the Iraq war and we see how that has turned out. Experience is just used to help establish if a candidate has good judgment. And that is where Obama will get my vote. I have more confidence in his judgement than anyone else left as an option at this point.

BTW, I&#39;m a registered republican.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 03:31 PM
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http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/2.../783/290/461422

+1 with mcduck&#39;s comments.. To me it is about someone who will work for the good of the country, not some niche special interest group.

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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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The reason I was asking those questions was to determine if the people who supported them could answer them moreso than because I wanted to know. It&#39;s as if these days Obama has become more of a rock star than a candidate for President.

If it were up to me....the Government would get back to basics. Many years ago the Imperial Federal Government began working outside the confines of the Constitution, which clearly outlines what the Federal Government can and cannot do. No where in the Constitution does it say that it&#39;s the Federal Government&#39;s job to have welfare programs. In fact...it does say that any power not specifically given to the Feds in the Constitution and not denied to the states is to be held by the States themselves or the people. That&#39;s the 10th Amendment.

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Originally posted by The Constitution of the United States
[b]The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
Any politician that wants MORE government is not ok in my book. At this point in History that grow-the-government group includes all Democrats and a large number of Republicans as well.

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 05:13 PM
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The reason I was asking those questions was to determine if the people who supported them could answer them moreso than because I wanted to know. It&#39;s as if these days Obama has become more of a rock star than a candidate for President.

If it were up to me....the Government would get back to basics. Many years ago the Imperial Federal Government began working outside the confines of the Constitution, which clearly outlines what the Federal Government can and cannot do. No where in the Constitution does it say that it&#39;s the Federal Government&#39;s job to have welfare programs. In fact...it does say that any power not specifically given to the Feds in the Constitution and not denied to the states is to be held by the States themselves or the people. That&#39;s the 10th Amendment.
Any politician that wants MORE government is not ok in my book. At this point in History that grow-the-government group includes all Democrats and a large number of Republicans as well.
Then you are most definitely a Ron Paul voter... and if he had a chance of getting the republican nomination, I would probably vote for him over Obama but it would be a tough call.

I like Ron Paul&#39;s view and intentions, but I question if he could actually execute... he would meet sooooo much opposition from congress, lobbyists, other govt agencies.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 06:21 PM
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I do not question Obama&#39;s experience because he has pointed out (and I strongly agree), no one had more experience than Dick Cheney when we entered the Iraq war and we see how that has turned out. Experience is just used to help establish if a candidate has good judgment. And that is where Obama will get my vote. I have more confidence in his judgement than anyone else left as an option at this point.

BTW, I&#39;m a registered republican.
I really hate to say this...and I know that its almost hijacking the thread.. but... why assume that Obama is correct in the assumption that Cheney is at fault for the unfolding of events in Iraq. Therefore making his analogy meaningless.

So here is my opinion.

The past difficulties in Iraq stemmed from a failure of the Generals to adopt the appropriate strategy. The proper strategy for fighting modern wars has been a topic of debate since the end of the cold war and included such figures as Powell, Shinseki and many others... throughout a few different administrations.

One side of the debate argued to maintain a large force that could fight a global war on two fronts... this was basically a continuation of the cold war strategy. This doctrine did not rule out adopting new mobile hardware in lieu of large force size.. it only argued to maintain a large force for various reasons.... Shinseki I beleive was in this camp. Many have blamed Bush for pushing him out of the Army. The fact is the arguement was going on for a long time within the Army before Bush/Cheney/Rumy ever came along.

And we all know the other side of the debate... a small fast highly mobile force.

We see which side one... the small, mobile force. The first Gulf war was an overwhelming lesson in highly mobile warfare... it never addressed a force left behind to administer and rebuild a country.

And guess what... both sides were right... we just didnt have the large force in place after major hostilities ended....

Was that Cheney&#39;s fault? no.

Bush, Cheney and Rumy were not sitting down at a table mapping out strategy... the Generals did that.. The Generals messed up.

Bush has said many many times... over and over that he responds to the Generals. If they need troops he would send them... the Generals didnt ask.

Finally it took the surge to compensate for their failings.

So to assume that experience doesnt matter... it does.

Fact of the matter is that our Army hasnt had experience in nation building since 1945.... and we didnt remember those lessons... we thought they were out of date lessons. They went on ideas and hunches of what modern war should be and they got it half wrong.

Experience only counts if you learn from the past as well... and i dont think Obama has a clue about these matters.

I realize that i just blamed everyone involved... but i lay the bulk of the blame on the generals... at least the republicans knew enough about the situation to adapt. Obama&#39;s solution would be to pull out and leave a country to slaughter itself without our help.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2008, 06:30 PM
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I really hate to say this...and I know that its almost hijacking the thread.. but... why assume that Obama is correct in the assumption that Cheney is at fault for the unfolding of events in Iraq. Therefore making his analogy meaningless.

So here is my opinion.

The past difficulties in Iraq stemmed from a failure of the Generals to adopt the appropriate strategy. The proper strategy for fighting modern wars has been a topic of debate since the end of the cold war and included such figures as Powell, Shinseki and many others... throughout a few different administrations.

One side of the debate argued to maintain a large force that could fight a global war on two fronts... this was basically a continuation of the cold war strategy. This doctrine did not rule out adopting new mobile hardware in lieu of large force size.. it only argued to maintain a large force for various reasons.... Shinseki I beleive was in this camp. Many have blamed Bush for pushing him out of the Army. The fact is the arguement was going on for a long time within the Army before Bush/Cheney/Rumy ever came along.

And we all know the other side of the debate... a small fast highly mobile force.

We see which side one... the small, mobile force. The first Gulf war was an overwhelming lesson in highly mobile warfare... it never addressed a force left behind to administer and rebuild a country.

And guess what... both sides were right... we just didnt have the large force in place after major hostilities ended....

Was that Cheney&#39;s fault? no.

Bush, Cheney and Rumy were not sitting down at a table mapping out strategy... the Generals did that.. The Generals messed up.

Bush has said many many times... over and over that he responds to the Generals. If they need troops he would send them... the Generals didnt ask.

Finally it took the surge to compensate for their failings.

So to assume that experience doesnt matter... it does.

Fact of the matter is that our Army hasnt had experience in nation building since 1945.... and we didnt remember those lessons... we thought they were out of date lessons. They went on ideas and hunches of what modern war should be and they got it half wrong.

Experience only counts if you learn from the past as well... and i dont think Obama has a clue about these matters.
You are arguing the wrong side of this... I think the implication is that the wealth of experience of those currently in the White House has not produced a solution for a long standing problem. Not so much that they were or were not the cause, but that the years of experience have not let to good judgment in arriving at a way to handle it. BTW, in case you haven&#39;t checked lately... the President is still the CIC of the armed forces... . The generals actions or inactions ultimately fall on his shoulders. If things are not being resolved, different decisions need to be made... perhaps other people should be placed in charge. These kind of things have been done and the situation is still not resolved. That is the point... a wealth of experience has not produced a good solution, so saying a candidate lacks experience really doesn&#39;t carry much weight.
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