The best jap. car - Page 2 - Nissan 350Z Forum, Nissan 370Z Tech Forums
View Poll Results: Which would you prefer
Honda 3 9.09%
Isuzu 1 3.03%
Toyota 1 3.03%
Nissan 24 72.73%
Acura 3 9.09%
ASL 0 0%
Datsun 0 0%
Other 1 3.03%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-01-2009, 10:05 PM
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Having driven both, I much prefer the DC2R to the Aussie delivered DC5R. While the B18C lacks the torque of the K20A, the chassis and the feel of the older car is far superior.

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Understeer is when you hit the tree with the front wheel.
Oversteer is when you hit it with the back.
Horsepower is how hard you hit the tree...
Torque is how far you drag it...
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-17-2009, 10:21 PM
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Just curious, exactly how did Mazda miss the list with ASL on the list? From an enthusiasts point of view, they're hard to beat. They claim (and probably justifiably) that more of their car race than any other manufacturer in the world on any given weekend. They back this up with parts, support, and even series pushing their cars. You can race Miata's in Solo, club racing, Spec Miata and more, RX-7/8's in many of the same, they're running either 3's or 6's in Speed World Challenge. They essentially created the market for sports roadsters, and they're capable of building a cheap, reliable sportscar (note, this does not apply to anything starting with RX), that has shown remarkably little bloat over the years.

Subaru comes next in my opinion. They've stolen rallying from Europe. The Evo might be faster, but the word rally generally brings to mind WRX's jumping over things.

I like Nissan's, I had a blast in our Maxima, and would like a Z. That said, once they've sold the car, they're interested in doing very little else with them. Keeping in mind that I like the Z, it's largely unique because it's a good looking car that's fastish, and can handle well. Kind of a jack of all trades car. The GT-R is cool, but unlike Vipers, Corvettes, or 911's, I kinda doubt you'll see them whenever you show up at a motorsports event. They're a little to big, a little to complex, etc. I could be wrong though.

Toyota is largely a has been. They created great cars, I'd love an early 90's MR2, or a Celica alltrac, and can understand the idea of the Supra. However, they seem to have lost the spark. Maybe the upcoming Toybaru will be better.

Aside from the (now ugly) Evo, Mitsubishi is useless, and probably shouldn't be in the US market.

Honda is now useless in my eyes. They've killed off all of the interesting cars (NSX, Integra TypeR, S2000, etc). Sorry a Civic is not a sports car. The SI is ok, but is overshadowed by better options for similar money (Mini, Mazdaspeed3, GTi, etc), and not really a sports car. They've lost what got them where they are today.

Izuzu, well I guess they had the Vehicross. Can't really think of anything else they made

~Pat

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-19-2009, 06:27 PM
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I am going to be honest, I voted Acura (would have voted both Acura/Honda since they're the same). Before you guys jump me, let me explain. To me, the NSX is still such a legend. Its incredible handling, well balanced motor and its unique looks to me has made it trully one of the best supercars in recent years. In addition, it was designed in part by a racing legend, which says a whole lot about the design of the car. Honda isn't new to racing and imho they continue to make strides in automotive engineering. I do agree though in they haven't put a real good sports car out in awhile, but I hope that will change soon. Honestly, Nissan is second on my list. I will always appreciate my Z, and the GTR is an incredible car.

I do agree with Pat. I am not sure why Mazda wasn't on the list? They are and have been hugely involved in racing for years and the Miata has been a well designed car for years. Excellent track car to boot! I don't like Mitsu-shitty at all, rally cars aren't really my thing.

At this point in time I really would think Honda/Acura and Nissan are the two best japanese automakers for sports cars..many might say Toyota but their cars have no soul to me and its an un-exciting driving experience driving one of their cars. But, just mho.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 07:09 AM
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QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
Just curious, exactly how did Mazda miss the list with ASL on the list? From an enthusiasts point of view, they're hard to beat. They claim (and probably justifiably) that more of their car race than any other manufacturer in the world on any given weekend.
Possibly true. But then, Toyota as a factory competes in more forms of motorsport than any other car company in the world. Too bad their road cars make Valium look like a stimulant.

Nissans are also quite popular on the track though. Silvias and Skylines are track and drift staples, and if it wasn't for the Z32's chronic overheating problems they'd be very popular on the track too.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
They essentially created the market for sports roadsters
Re-created. The founding of that market belongs to Great Britain. MG's, Austin Healeys, Sprites, Hilmans, Lotus' etc have been around for a lot longer than the Miata.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
they're capable of building a cheap, reliable sportscar (note, this does not apply to anything starting with RX), that has shown remarkably little bloat over the years.
I wouldn't say that to a NA or NB Miata owner. Half my friends own Miatas, and most of them think the NC is a joke. Not just the weight, which isn't bad by today's standards, but how "soft" the whole car is.

I would agree that Mazda should be there, though. They do have a motorsport heritage in the top echelons and are quite popular with club-level racers.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
Subaru comes next in my opinion. They've stolen rallying from Europe. The Evo might be faster, but the word rally generally brings to mind WRX's jumping over things.
That's generally thanks to Colin McCrash's driving style though. And the fact that Subaru leveraged their rally heritage a lot better by making putting an AWD variant in their entire range (to a point where you can't even buy a 2WD Subaru in Australia anymore).

However, I remember Tommi Makkinen's Evo VI a lot more than any WRX. Tommi dominated WRC when he was racing there. McCrae was never as successful as he was.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
The GT-R is cool, but unlike Vipers, Corvettes, or 911's, I kinda doubt you'll see them whenever you show up at a motorsports event. They're a little to big, a little to complex, etc. I could be wrong though.
That's not fair. The nameplate is very new in your country. It will take time for people to learn how the car works.

Down Under where people have been importing R32s, R33s and R34s for over a decade, you see plenty of GT-Rs in motorsport. Back in 1990, ATTESSA was frighteningly new and complex. It took time for people to learn how to work with it, but it didn't take long for people to see the benefits of racing the R32.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 18 2009, 11:21 AM)
Quote:
Toyota is largely a has been. They created great cars, I'd love an early 90's MR2, or a Celica alltrac, and can understand the idea of the Supra. However, they seem to have lost the spark. Maybe the upcoming Toybaru will be better.
Hopefully the Toybaru and LFA won't suck. I've never been a Toyota fan. For me the last interesting car they made was the SW20 MR2. I dislike the JZA80 Supra (I am a GT-R person at heart) and the Celica GT-Four was always overweight and under-developed compared to the WRX and Evo.

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Understeer is when you hit the tree with the front wheel.
Oversteer is when you hit it with the back.
Horsepower is how hard you hit the tree...
Torque is how far you drag it...
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-20-2009, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (scathing @ Oct 20 2009, 05:09 AM)
Quote:
Possibly true. But then, Toyota as a factory competes in more forms of motorsport than any other car company in the world. Too bad their road cars make Valium look like a stimulant.

Nissans are also quite popular on the track though. Silvias and Skylines are track and drift staples, and if it wasn't for the Z32's chronic overheating problems they'd be very popular on the track too.



Re-created. The founding of that market belongs to Great Britain. MG's, Austin Healeys, Sprites, Hilmans, Lotus' etc have been around for a lot longer than the Miata.



I wouldn't say that to a NA or NB Miata owner. Half my friends own Miatas, and most of them think the NC is a joke. Not just the weight, which isn't bad by today's standards, but how "soft" the whole car is.

I would agree that Mazda should be there, though. They do have a motorsport heritage in the top echelons and are quite popular with club-level racers.



That's generally thanks to Colin McCrash's driving style though. And the fact that Subaru leveraged their rally heritage a lot better by making putting an AWD variant in their entire range (to a point where you can't even buy a 2WD Subaru in Australia anymore).

However, I remember Tommi Makkinen's Evo VI a lot more than any WRX. Tommi dominated WRC when he was racing there. McCrae was never as successful as he was.



That's not fair. The nameplate is very new in your country. It will take time for people to learn how the car works.

Down Under where people have been importing R32s, R33s and R34s for over a decade, you see plenty of GT-Rs in motorsport. Back in 1990, ATTESSA was frighteningly new and complex. It took time for people to learn how to work with it, but it didn't take long for people to see the benefits of racing the R32.



Hopefully the Toybaru and LFA won't suck. I've never been a Toyota fan. For me the last interesting car they made was the SW20 MR2. I dislike the JZA80 Supra (I am a GT-R person at heart) and the Celica GT-Four was always overweight and under-developed compared to the WRX and Evo.
I agree with a lot of what you said. It might be worth noting that I'm an NA owner (at least for now, think it's finding a new home soon. Haven't gotten time to really run out an NC, but I liked the test drive I took. The Duratech based engine is a major step up over a stock NA block IMO (I realize that FI is better on the NA/NB). My Miata is awesome to drive, but a steep hill was always a little scary. It could just be mine though, as the engine is junk.

The problem with Toyota is that the series they are in have a major disconnect with customer cars. To the best of my knowledge their leading two efforts are NASCAR and F1, both purpose built cars. Looking at their site, they also run Daytona Prototypes which fall into the same category. Getting a spec Miata, a formula Mazda, etc isn't hard, they're either available from the company or based on street cars. The Lola's are a stretch, but it's cool to see them there. And yes I should have said recreated.

I know that the GT-R's have been successful as track/race cars. That said, I don't see the new one following in the same vein. I hope I'm wrong, but I've got my doubts.

~Pat

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 07:25 AM
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QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 21 2009, 10:01 AM)
Quote:
My Miata is awesome to drive, but a steep hill was always a little scary. It could just be mine though, as the engine is junk.
Nah, they're all like that. My girlfriend has a NC hardtop. We love it as a daily, but it is very cossetting compared to the older models.

The engine is about right though. I drove a mate's NB that had bolt-ons. I said to my girlfriend, "It's true what they say about these MX-5s, they are underpowered."

She replied with "Give it full throttle."

"I am."

".....oh."

The steering and chassis felt a lot more taut, but with aftermarket suspension its hard to be fair. Still, the relative lack of mass is always noticable.

The NC is still underpowered by modern standards, but it is a quantum leap over the old engines. I don't understand why they didn't put the 2.3L bottom end in, since they already had a 2.3L variant when the NC was released. It's not like the 2.0L revs that hard either.

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 21 2009, 10:01 AM)
Quote:
The problem with Toyota is that the series they are in have a major disconnect with customer cars. To the best of my knowledge their leading two efforts are NASCAR and F1, both purpose built cars.
I'm not sure what their NASCAR team is like, but their F1 program is a joke. They did OK in WRC

QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 21 2009, 10:01 AM)
Quote:
I know that the GT-R's have been successful as track/race cars. That said, I don't see the new one following in the same vein. I hope I'm wrong, but I've got my doubts.
I think it will, but since the chassis is so different to the old cars the learning curve is steep. The R32 took a little while to develop (and that was with the benefit of the car being eligible for Group A internationally, and various classes in Japan). Since the R33 and R34 were only upgrades to the R32 driveline and engine a lot of the old knowledge still applied, even as the roadgoing GT-R became ineligible for a lot of motorsport.

In the R35 everything is different. The driveline is completely original. The engine is brand new. The suspension is new. And since its not really eligible for any top-tier race series, its privateers that will be sinking money into learning how to pull more speed out of the platform.

As an analogy, look at the 350Z. The Z33 was the first proper sports car to cop the VQ and it took a fair while for people to release decent upgrade parts for the car. I remember shopping for an exhaust in 2004, and there were only around a dozen options for catbacks.

As for how good the base platform is, current owners competing in time attack with a stock R35 think the vehicle is better than the old ones. As long as there's money around to pay for it, I can see a lot of people sinking a lot of time and money into making the car competitive.

The main thing holding it back from being competitive in racing is that few series currently permit active AWD turbo cars.

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Understeer is when you hit the tree with the front wheel.
Oversteer is when you hit it with the back.
Horsepower is how hard you hit the tree...
Torque is how far you drag it...
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-21-2009, 07:55 AM
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NA? NB? NC? What are you guys talking about?

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-22-2009, 11:18 PM
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QUOTE (scathing @ Oct 21 2009, 05:25 AM)
Quote:
Nah, they're all like that. My girlfriend has a NC hardtop. We love it as a daily, but it is very cossetting compared to the older models.

The engine is about right though. I drove a mate's NB that had bolt-ons. I said to my girlfriend, "It's true what they say about these MX-5s, they are underpowered."

She replied with "Give it full throttle."

"I am."

".....oh."

The steering and chassis felt a lot more taut, but with aftermarket suspension its hard to be fair. Still, the relative lack of mass is always noticable.

The NC is still underpowered by modern standards, but it is a quantum leap over the old engines. I don't understand why they didn't put the 2.3L bottom end in, since they already had a 2.3L variant when the NC was released. It's not like the 2.0L revs that hard either.

In the R35 everything is different. The driveline is completely original. The engine is brand new. The suspension is new. And since its not really eligible for any top-tier race series, its privateers that will be sinking money into learning how to pull more speed out of the platform.

As an analogy, look at the 350Z. The Z33 was the first proper sports car to cop the VQ and it took a fair while for people to release decent upgrade parts for the car. I remember shopping for an exhaust in 2004, and there were only around a dozen options for catbacks.

As for how good the base platform is, current owners competing in time attack with a stock R35 think the vehicle is better than the old ones. As long as there's money around to pay for it, I can see a lot of people sinking a lot of time and money into making the car competitive.

The main thing holding it back from being competitive in racing is that few series currently permit active AWD turbo cars.
The 2.3L 'doesn't' fit, the guys running v8's be damned, or so says Mazda. Aftermarket suspension seems to be a given with the NC, luckily we've got some great vendors stateside. I'd be looking for a base or 6 speed, although they still need an overdrive gear.

QUOTE (SmoothZ @ Oct 21 2009, 05:55 AM)
Quote:
NA? NB? NC? What are you guys talking about?
NA are the first gens, NB the second, and NC the current, there are rumors of an ND to come.

~Pat

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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-23-2009, 07:23 AM
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QUOTE (NoZYet @ Oct 23 2009, 12:18 PM)
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The 2.3L 'doesn't' fit, the guys running v8's be damned, or so says Mazda.
As far as I'm aware, its the same block!

I know the turbocharged engine doesn't fit, but the official reason is because of some ancillary pump fouls the firewall. They could choose to relocate, but won't.

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Understeer is when you hit the tree with the front wheel.
Oversteer is when you hit it with the back.
Horsepower is how hard you hit the tree...
Torque is how far you drag it...
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