Road to 300whp....,? - Page 3 - Nissan 350Z Forum, Nissan 370Z Tech Forums
User Tag List

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Base Member
 
Wingman646's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: JAX, FL
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
QUOTE (scathing @ Feb 15 2009, 05:02 PM)
Quote:
Z350Lover used to have a 3.5L VQ that made around 300rwhp. Aside from freeing up the induction system to reduce pumping losses, his forged internals and choice of head work allowed him to spin the motor to 8000RPM. At the stock 6850 RPM cutout, he had no hope of hitting 300rwhp.

I'm obviously failing to properly explain what I'm thinking... In your example above you stated that he did a lot of internal work! THAT is where I'm getting at...I'm trying to say that you just cannot reach high output NA goals without digging deep inside and giving the VQ some organ transplants!

Ronin was talking about NOT going into the internals, but gathering power from bolt-ons! What I was trying to get across was that his bolt-ons plus a higher rev limit isn't going to fix his lust for NA power! It's going to blow his stock motor to a hole riddled mess!

I FULLY AGREE with you and Z1 that a higher rev limit will give you gains, BUT not without beefing up the internals!!! The way I read it was that Z1 was telling me that just revving higher will do a motor better than upgrading the internals! That is where my argument came from!

"You have a nice car! It's really fast!"

"It's the HID Headlights, they make me a level 6 racer and they add +50 horsepower!"
Wingman646 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Enthusiast Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 182
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
QUOTE (Wingman646 @ Feb 15 2009, 05:13 PM)
Quote:
So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that the 350Z performs better with only a camshaft mod and blowing out the factory redline? Basically stating that the stock motor has a hidden stash of power that every owner is missing out on due to an rpm ceiling?

That's interesting...
You failed to read (or understand) what I wrote

Did I say only a camshaft mod? No. NA power is not about one specific change on a VQ..it's about several changes desinged specifically around one another. Read also what I wrote earlier in the thread. Can one build a legit 300 whp NA 350Z. Maybe. Has it been done? Not to my knowledge...and I've been around the block once or twice with this engine. I am by no means an expert, or a know it all...I learn stuff nearly every day on this engine, and it's been that way since I began studying it. In contemplating and planning my build, as well as being in the business that I am in, I see setups, and know of projects that are not always out in the open. Everyone I am aware of who has hit or surpassed 300 whp on an NA 350Z has done so with a fully built engine. What I originally set out to do was build a set of heads and attach them to my stock DE (non revup block). However, the more I learned, and the more people who had done, or had been contemplating, my level of mods, discussed it, the more I decided that was not the right route to go. Personally, I didn't want to risk all the money I invested into my heads and attach them to a bottom end that I'd have to wonder about. So, when a spare engine came into my possession, I chose to simply build a bottom end that I knew would deal with what my heads would dish out. I'll let someone else take that chance if they want to. I almost did, and decided I'd rather be sure that guess. I'm happy with my decision.

Did I say one could simply take a stock engine and run it to some insanely high rpm? No...I said that the engine, with the proper head work (cams, headers, etc) rewards rpm, and that every iteration of the VQ has a practical rpm limit in both stock and built configurations. Those limitations are 2 fold. First and foremost is what the bottom end can deal with. As you lighten the rotating assembly, and improve the balancing that Nissan has done (and address some other issues) you increase the ability of the bottom end to withstand the revs. Then you have the heads. For practical purposes (leaving out variable lift/duration setups for purposes of this discussion), every cam has it's rpm sweet spot. The trick to a successful engine, is matching the cam, with the rest of the setup (intake manifold, exhaust manifold), and then ensuring the bottom end can deal with that rpm range. Again, your contention was that there is no replacement for displacement. That might be true in some platforms, but it is patently not the case wiht this engine. There is most certainly a replacmenet for displacement as far as power is concerned. Again, torque is another issue. So far, the very best NA builds I've seen have had one thing in common...relatively flat torque curves. That is the tell tale sign of proper headwork. The flatter the torque band remains,generally speaking, the better the headwork. Again, lay people are just still scratching the surface for NA builds on this platform, despite the amount of time it's been out.

As the VQ engine has developed, the rpm ceiling for a stock engine has increased dramatically. A VQ35DE for example, is good to about 7200 rpm without any changes to the bottom end. A Revup is good to about 7600. A HR is good to about 8000 rpm. These are all in stock form

So again, in the realm of NA VQ's there is a replacement for displacement.....and that is rpm. Of course both assume the proper parts selection in the first place. That much goes without saying no matter what the build encompasses
Z1 Performance is offline  
post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
QUOTE (Z1 Performance @ Feb 15 2009, 10:42 AM)
Quote:
first thing you do is cancel that header order...Borla's produce 0 gains

is it possible? Maybe. Has it been done? No. To make a DE get a legit 300whp it needs to rev...to rev, it really needs to be built. Cams would be mandatory

Why the FUCK would I just cancel an order?. ....cause you say " wwwaaaa , It wont make power, wwwwaaaa"! No facts to show, ya Im so fuckin sure,.
Look I'm here to learn, That don't mean I'm just gonna listen to the first swinging Dick that that say cancel my order!!!!

I can comprehend the cams issue, and fine I can get to it, But before I need listen to a word you say, show me some numbers or facts that is gonna prove the header issue.
cause it sounds to me your just being biased!
RoninDoc82 is offline  
 
post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:26 AM
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Kkoa12h
QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 17 2009, 12:19 AM)
Quote:
Why the FUCK would I just cancel an order?. ....cause you say " wwwaaaa , It wont make power, wwwwaaaa"! No facts to show, ya Im so fuckin sure,.
Look I'm here to learn, That don't mean I'm just gonna listen to the first swinging Dick that that say cancel my order!!!!

I can comprehend the cams issue, and fine I can get to it, But before I need listen to a word you say, show me some numbers or facts that is gonna prove the header issue.
cause it sounds to me your just being biased!
Its actually has been known throughout the community for quite awhile that there are no significant gains to be had with the borla header. If you did some research for yourself you will find all the proof that you need. No need to attack someone who is only trying to help you get the most for your money. If you choose to waste your money then by all means, that is your prerogative; do not cancel your order and enjoy your purchase.
Kkoa12h is offline  
post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Look, the bottom line....If its not possible to do it without getting all complicated with stroker/pistons and that kinda bullshit, guess what, I'm not gonna do it cause then thats gonna
take the fun/practicality out of being an every day driver!

ya,...I'm gonna cancel my Borla's cause some fag off the forum says theyre no good when my best friend recommend them, one on his Z, the other friend on his Corvette? Ya fucking right!

Next, along with these exhaust manifolds, valvetrain/ecu/flywheel w/clutch/pulley's....and thats probably about it. If I dont make 300, fuck it then I'll roll in my 4 door family EVO IX I let my girl drive.

You guys are killing me with this back and forth debate on whose pussy smells worse. Thats why I quit with the NICO forums.


If I dont make the 300 mark, fine then, I'm just trying to see what is realistic in upgrades without getting all Fast and fucking furious.

I'm making 265whp now!.... if the factory WHP is around 230ish, and I'm getting in the 260's with intake/exhaust upgrades, I'm just trying to figure why 300 is such a unreal number before I have to get all
ridiculous with the upgrades!
RoninDoc82 is offline  
post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:41 AM
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Kkoa12h
QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 17 2009, 12:34 AM)
Quote:
Look, the bottom line....If its not possible do it without getting all complicated with stroker/pistons and that kinda bullshit, guess what, I'm not gonna do it cause then thats gonna
take the fun/practicality of being an every day driver!

I'm gonna cancel my Borla's cause some fag off the forum says theyre no good when my best friend recommend them, one on his Z, the other friend on his Corvette.

Next, along with these exhaust manifolds, valvetrain/ecu/flywheel w/clutch/pulley's....and thats probably about it. If I dont make 300, fuck it then I'll roll in my 4 door family EVO I let my girl drive.

You guys are killing me with this back and forth debate on whose pussy smells worse. Thats why I quit with the NICO forums.
Has your "friend" hit 300whp in his z?
Kkoa12h is offline  
post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
QUOTE (Kkoa12h @ Feb 17 2009, 12:26 AM)
Quote:
Its actually has been known throughout the community for quite awhile that there are no significant gains to be had with the borla header. If you did some research for yourself you will find all the proof that you need. No need to attack someone who is only trying to help you get the most for your money. If you choose to waste your money then by all means, that is your prerogative; do not cancel your order and enjoy your purchase.

You know what....fuck it....I'm over it, I'll ask my local shops and friends I "see" and "talk to"

I'm over this thread!
RoninDoc82 is offline  
post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 02:59 AM
Base Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Kkoa12h
QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 12 2009, 03:05 PM)
Quote:
Well I haven't post my official Dyno numbers cause the disk I have it on is being fuckin gay, but

Yesterday I had my 04 Z33 Dyno'd at 265whp and the TQ was at 254ish. I'll post the numbers when I can.
Standard bolt ons include:

-Borla TDE
-AAM HFC
-Motordyne 5/16 spacer
-InjenCAI
Said fuck it and ordered Borla stainless steel headers after the runs

I don't wanna go FI, I prefer to just stay NA, is it possible to achieve 290's whp maybe 300 with out literally building the engine internally. I'll do cams if it is really needed, but first wanna see what I get with bolt on shit and tuning.


Can I do this with Piggyback ECU, pulleys, Flywheel upgrade, and the new headers I purchased?
If not what would be needed?

[attachment=26256:1234374748561.jpg]
QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 17 2009, 12:19 AM)
Quote:
Why the FUCK would I just cancel an order?. ....cause you say " wwwaaaa , It wont make power, wwwwaaaa"! No facts to show, ya Im so fuckin sure,.
Look I'm here to learn, That don't mean I'm just gonna listen to the first swinging Dick that that say cancel my order!!!!

I can comprehend the cams issue, and fine I can get to it, But before I need listen to a word you say, show me some numbers or facts that is gonna prove the header issue.
cause it sounds to me your just being biased!

QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 17 2009, 12:34 AM)
Quote:
Look, the bottom line....If its not possible to do it without getting all complicated with stroker/pistons and that kinda bullshit, guess what, I'm not gonna do it cause then thats gonna
take the fun/practicality out of being an every day driver!

ya,...I'm gonna cancel my Borla's cause some fag off the forum says theyre no good when my best friend recommend them, one on his Z, the other friend on his Corvette? Ya fucking right!

Next, along with these exhaust manifolds, valvetrain/ecu/flywheel w/clutch/pulley's....and thats probably about it. If I dont make 300, fuck it then I'll roll in my 4 door family EVO IX I let my girl drive.

You guys are killing me with this back and forth debate on whose pussy smells worse. Thats why I quit with the NICO forums.


If I dont make the 300 mark, fine then, I'm just trying to see what is realistic in upgrades without getting all Fast and fucking furious.

I'm making 265whp now!.... if the factory WHP is around 230ish, and I'm getting in the 260's with intake/exhaust upgrades, I'm just trying to figure why 300 is such a unreal number before I have to get all
ridiculous with the upgrades!
Your posts are conflicting. In your first post you put it out there that you would like suggestions from other members. Then when you receive a suggestion which happens to be the truth, which for some reason you don't seem to like (oh I forgot, your "friend" with the Z and the corvette told you something different), then you result to name calling?

Honestly you need to be a lot more mature when asking other people for their suggestions.
Kkoa12h is offline  
post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
QUOTE (Kkoa12h @ Feb 17 2009, 12:59 AM)
Quote:
Your posts are conflicting. In your first post you put it out there that you would like suggestions from other members. Then when you receive a suggestion which happens to be the truth, which for some reason you don't seem to like (oh I forgot, your "friend" with the Z and the corvette told you something different), then you result to name calling?

Honestly you need to be a lot more mature when asking other people for their suggestions.

Look....I'm sorry if I'm being rude about it. the last thing I want is someone getting sore bout it, thats just the way I address things to people,


I just wanna know whats realistics in power gains. But to say, I'm gonna get 0 gain from because its a borla and its "well known in the community" . Thats dumb, Thats not logical
to me if there are no numbers or anything behind it, so how can it be the truth then.
Then you say "well, if I'd done my research!"
Ok???....I googled it as much as possible, asked friends, asked 2 local shops, (Obsession Motorsports and Altered Atmosphere) and they tell me the same shit opposite what this thread is saying.

I'm doing the headers cause they've arrived, If they don't give me shit, I can promise I'll be the first to say "you guys are right",....but....If it does contribute to the path I'm going in, I'm also gonna say that you
guys are full of shit! If I fuck up with this upgrade I'll say I fucked up.

I'm almost convinced that if I would have said they were another brand, people would still just say that they're garbage with nothing behind it rather than weak statements like" its well known in the community"
and that I'd get 0 gain.

[attachment=26265:FLOWERS.jpg]

Here ...feel better!






Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FLOWERS.jpg
Views:	363
Size:	43.9 KB
ID:	44304  
RoninDoc82 is offline  
post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 12:31 PM
Base Member
 
Wingman646's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: JAX, FL
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
QUOTE (RoninDoc82 @ Feb 17 2009, 12:34 AM)
Quote:
If I dont make the 300 mark, fine then, I'm just trying to see what is realistic in upgrades without getting all Fast and fucking furious.
ROTFLMFAO!!!


*wipes tears from eyes*

Wow that was priceless.

But seriously man, cam and headwork will get you very close and that's not really "delving" deep into the motor by any means. I think you'll be real close to your mark by then.

"You have a nice car! It's really fast!"

"It's the HID Headlights, they make me a level 6 racer and they add +50 horsepower!"
Wingman646 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome