Grounding Wires - Page 6 - Nissan 350Z Forum, Nissan 370Z Tech Forums
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post #51 of 58 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 01:12 AM
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This always creates a lot of debate - the generally accepted theory is that installation of an earthing kit can restore lost power/torque, where the loss is due to inefficient earthing, due to age, wear & tear etc. You might not realise your car is running short on power because of an earthing issue, but when a grounding kit fixes this you'll notice.

first part is what they are ment to do and second part is the reality of the cause
that is the only part of my previous post important, i listed the first part because of the fact that it is exactly the marketing of a grounding kit manufacturer, now at the bottom is the truth in why gains are found
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post #52 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-26-2007, 01:58 PM
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So.. i dug this thread up.. Did some searching but couldn’t find anything.

Q:
Do the new 07s have factory grounding kits?

For me the look is intriguing, the technical side will forever turn my mind to mush.
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post #53 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-26-2007, 03:25 PM
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Wrong,wrong wrong!!!

Lower resistance will NOT provide more voltage to anything. The battery and alternator are the power supplies and supply a fixed voltage. Reducing resistance will increase current. In addition, electronic parts have specific voltage operating ranges. Operating parts outside of the ranges will cause damage (i.e. If 12 volts is good, 15 volts IS NOT better).

Furthermore, the amount of resistance in any piece of wire is insignificant when compared to the amount of resistance in the active circuit. The amount of resistance measured in any length of wire typically found in an automobile is going to be less than 1 ohm and typically less then 1/10 ohm. This resistance value can not be appreciably reduced and therefore any minute reduction in resistance will have no effect on the performance of the circuit.
I know that its an old post, but I want to address this. Sorry bro, but you will see a voltage drop across the resistor. Its a very small one (thus what I've been saying all along). Current has to be the same throughout the circuit (how many electrons are flowing through). In order for the circuit to follow the laws of physics, there has to be a drop in voltage.

The system I8ACobra has been may work well I have no idea. If it can stabilize the power flow it may help, I know audio guys shell over big money for APC power supplies.

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post #54 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-06-2007, 10:50 PM
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I am reposting this because feel the need to inform:

I hate to seen cynical, but grounding kits have to be one of the best scams going. What in the world are we supposed to be grounding? These kits are not grounding your car, there is no connection to ground. Connecting to ground requires a connection to the earth. What many people like to call a ground line is really a return line. All electrical circuits need a supply line and a return line for current to flow. What electrical circuit are you completeing by installing these "grounding kits"?

Here is a vendor's explanation of the need for a grounding kit that was posted at 350Z Motoring.com. I deleted the vendor's name in the interest of good manners. Following his expalnation is my reply. I look forward to furher discussion on this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxxxxx
350Z Engine Grounding/Earthing Kit:

Automotive electrical and computer systems are designed to tolerate up to 100% noise on its input lines. Meaning, if the ECU is expecting a 12-volt input signal, the signal may vary in the range of 0 to 12 volts. Fluctuations in signal are due to noise in the system. Noise is generated by spark plugs firing, discharges through the tires to the road, alternator turning on/off, etc. In other words, there is a lot of inherent noise an automotive electrical system.

One of the best-proven ways to compensate for noise is with proper grounding.

When measuring a DC (direct current) signal, almost any kind of wire will due. However, when measuring a high frequency input (i.e. the mass air flow sensor or the air/fuel mixture sensor) it is necessary to run a ground wire in parallel with your signal. The engine grounding/earthing kit provides grounding along side each signal wire.

The 350Z Engine Grounding/Earthing Kit allows for cleaner data transfer to the ECU. The result is more accurate measurements by the ECU and therefore more accurate performance, smoother idle and acceleration.
My Reply:

Sorry, but I have to call you on this.

1) No electrical system will operate on 0 volts. There must be an electrical potential for current to flow and every electrical device has a minimum voltage it wants to see. Prove this to yourself. Go to Analog Devices web site (www.analog.com), choose any device, look at the data sheet and you will find min. and max. voltage operating ranges.

2) Noise will cause distortion in a signal. Noise is defined as any unwanted signal. Grounding WILL NOT remove noise from a signal, Shielding will prevent noise from interfering with a signal and filtering will remove noise from a signal. Auto manufacturers go to great lengths to shield their electrical systems from receiving and generating unwanted signals. The FCC mandates this. If ignition wiring voltage (tens of thousands of volts) gets to your ECU then your ECU will immediately fail due to over voltage. The max power supply voltage most miniature circuits want to see is 15 volts and signal voltage is lower.

3) There is no current flowing through the tires!!! The tires are rubber and act as an insulator. This is why static charge builds up on a car and you will occasionally get a shock when you touch the car. If the tires were conductive this current would go to ground. By the way, if the static charge is strong enough for you to feel, then it is at about 20,000 volts.

4) Grounding WILL NOT remove noise from a system. Improper grounding can induce noise by setting up a ground loop.

5) Measuring DC vs. alternating current. I am a little confused by this statement. Measuring AC or DC voltage or current only requires a multi-meter. I have one and have done all of these measurements. If this statement actually deals with running AC vs. DC circuits, both circuits require a 'ground wire'. It is actually a return wire (A ground wire is the third wire you would typically see in your home wiring. This wire actually goes to ground and is a safety precaution). A circuit has to be complete for current to flow.

6) The signal sent by the MAF and A/F meter is a DC signal of varying voltage. The voltage may vary rapidly, but this in no way, shape or manner makes the signal anything other than DC. The frequency of the signal is zero.

7) I cannot imagine how a grounding kit will allow cleaner data to be made available to the ECU. Grounding WILL NOT remove noise from a signal.

8) If there is a difference of voltage potential between various parts off the car it can be measured with a voltmeter. I did this with the car running.

I made measurements based on the instructions for placement of the grounding wires. There was NO difference in the voltage potential between the different sides of the plenum. No difference between either side of the plenum and the front of the engine. No difference between either side of the plenum, front of the engine, and the vehicle chassis. Where I DID measure a voltage potential was between the negative terminal of the battery and all those other pieces. The bad news was that all those other pieces were at a lower potential than the negative terminal of the battery by 0.015 volts. The reason that the negative battery terminal has a voltage potential greater than zero is because the negative terminal of the alternator now serves as the low voltage reference. If you run a wire from the battery to those other parts, current will flow from the negative terminal of the battery to those parts. I don't really think that is such a good idea.
So, what is a grounding kit doing ...maybe just demonstarting that the palcebo effect is real.
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post #55 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-06-2007, 11:19 PM
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"If you measure the resistance between the cylinder head and the negative terminal of the battery and you get a very low reading, typically less than 1 ohm, then the stock return line (ground line) is functioning as intended. Adding more “grounding” will not provide any performance increase, electrical or otherwise."


True only for low current DC. Remove the ground cable from the battery and Replace it with 18ga wire and check your ground as you describe. Yep, less than 1 ohm resistance only now you have made a fuse.

Resistance is ok for DC. For digital signals you need to use inductance. If you Fluke VOM set it on AC volt scale and put one and on the ground connection of any noisy device and the other lead on the final ground point i.e.. battery terminal. You will see voltage and this is one ground point to another. A VOM is OK for real noisy devices like alternators or ignition. For computers and digital sensors you need a scope.

If you ever looked at the cables inside your PC you may have noticed twisted pairs: one signal and the other ground. Signal cables, often ribbon, have every other wire ground- signal, ground, signal, ground etc.
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post #56 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 04:29 AM
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Hi,

Can someone help me identify where the locations of my grounding wires are on my 2005 350Z?

I have been having issues with my MAF sensor which I turn has been causing episodes of flat spots (power lacking) for a few seconds sometimes a minute long.
I took it to a Nissan dealership and they checked what error codes were popping up. They told me it was the MAF sensor, so they cleaned it and I have not had an engine light since. I then experienced the flat spot again and the dealership told me it must be an earth connection that is not connected properly that may be effecting the MAF sensor, making it pass an inaccurate reading to the ECU.

Anyways has anyone had this issue?
Can someone help me find the locations so I can go tighten them up?

Thanks
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post #57 of 58 (permalink) Old 05-16-2017, 08:38 AM
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You've unearthed (pun intended) a long-dead thread. But to answer your question, there is no grounding kit installed from the factory on your z33. As for your "flat spots" you might want to get a baseline dyno done to examine the issue. Looking at the power curve on a chart will not only quantity the issue, but also provide baseline data.
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post #58 of 58 (permalink) Old 01-30-2018, 09:48 PM
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So from all of the comments, which one(s)are the electrical engineers?
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